This is a straw man argument. It’s not what we promote and when men do act this way they get an earful from the other men here.
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Support Poly Not For Everyone
- Thread starter notforme
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Hello again, @notforme. I realize I'm about to be repetitive, but I believe that this is an important point, the absorbing of which will help you experience less misery, because you'll eventually realize that this is not a matter of you against the world (or even you against BF).
@Pacman has already noted that your argument about take-it-or-leave-it is a straw man argument, but I'm going to re-focus on what you've repeated this evening: "I don't believe it is for everyone." Each time you write that, you come across as if you are arguing against not only someone else in particular but your audience in general (which is us). So I'll point this out again: only a fool would believe that polygamy is for everyone. The BF community is supportive of all marital structures that adhere to biblical principles, not just biblical polygamy/patriarchal polygyny, so just with that alone it would be very difficult to find someone among us who didn't have the exact same opinion you have in that regard. Add to that, though, the fact that everyone practicing biblical polygamy would be mathematically impossible (i.e., where would all the extra wives come from? outer space? Mexico?).
Thus my assertion that only a fool would believe that it is for everyone.
So I have to ask: do you know such a fool? Because, if so, maybe enlightening the fool is something with which we can help you.
Apparently I am not communicating properly. I will try again. Some husbands may want and demand having another wife, no matter what. That is not going to make the first wife accept it. And there are going to be a vast amount of reasons why depending on that particular couples marriage.
I thought I was being clear in the original post.
That's what I meant by "everyone". Hope this clears it up for you.
Sorry that you feel I am in some way arguing about the purpose of this forum. Never even entered my mind.
I have read everything you just posted, but I am still left with this question: what was your purpose in writing each time that it is your opinion that you don't believe that polygamy is for everyone?
I would assert that stating that polygamy isn't for everyone, or even that you believe that polygamy isn't for everyone, is the equivalent of saying that it is your opinion that not all women are lesbians. Or that swimming isn't for everyone. Or that rocky road ice cream isn't for everyone. If you were to make a point (and repeat it over various posts and over years of time) that lesbianism isn't for every woman or that rocky road ice cream isn't for everyone, it would be entirely natural for your audience to wonder, "What's up with that? Does she think we're trying to force lesbianism or mixed-media frozen concoctions on everyone? No one would do that, so why is she continuing to bring this up?"
So I'm figuring you have some purpose in doing so. What was your reason for asserting so strongly that polygamy isn't for everyone?
Hi, might I add a slightly different approach (?) God made Adam and gave him Eve as a companion; the first marital relationship. But that doesn't prove every man should be married. Some men want and are able to live a single celebate life, and they do that to the glory of God. It doesn't prove marriage is right or wrong for anyone else; it's their choice to be married or single. And for those who choose to marry, God hasn't mandatorily proscribed any number to the wives a man may choose to have or not have. But according to what is written, God's favor is upon him who finds a wife; it's good. Shalom
I didn't know there is a time limit rule on the forum as to how often you can post or participate. Just because people aren't posting doesn't mean they aren't reading.
Maybe you should go back and read what I wrote to begin with on this thread. Let me help you:
Now, I am going to put my tail between my legs and go back to living my life of h_ll with a husband that is in the process of taking another wife "no matter what".
Have you figured out why women don't post much on here??
I am sorry this is what is happening in your personal life. But I am glad you posted it so that we know what to pray for. I will be praying for your situation, as it sounds very heartbreaking.
I will praying for you and your situation.
C
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@notforme, I am sorry things are coming across to you in a negative way. I was just curious about what may have happened in you life to bring this all up again. I know there is no limit to posting and I know there are many many here that only read. That's all ok. You have an avatar that says this is NOT FOR ME, you keep thinking that wives are being forced into this. There has been many statements made here that that kind of thing may happen to families but it is not at all supported here. If someone came here with that story, I guarantee both the women and men, husbands and wives, here would do their very best to lovingly steer that family to more peaceful and better way, with the underlining theme of patience.
Most of the men here are, well, you would find on the alpha male side and they look at things, particularly someone coming in with negative view as something that has to be corrected. (Remember, until you reveal some of who you are you are just an avatar here.) But, being that we also want to please God and cherish the women who have been placed before us, we have to learn to reach into our compassion side to try and figure out how to communicate when there is a break down. So I think we all have gotten off on the wrong foot.
I think someone suggested that maybe if you shared what happened to you to bring you to your conclusions you may find that those who will respond will not at all condemn you or see it as a negative but try and find the positive in it to help you and with that, you will see that there is no force only an attempt to love.
I just saw this.
Give us a chance to help you. At least offer comfort.
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Thank you for finally revealing what is behind the OP and cryptic accusations. Now we can pray and potentially help.
Your pain and frustration are apparent and for that I am sorry. Would you care to share a bit more of your story, or at least converse privately with one of the ladies in our Women's Ministry? @julieb and @FollowingHim2 head that up.. Also, since you are a long time reader, is your husband on here or willing to talk? His side of the story provides important balance.
Why does a poly man have to be oppressed and take a beating (verbally, mentally, and sometimes physically) from his anti-poly wife when all he is doing is try to love women the way God made him?
Where did God say that? Can you point to the verse? Such a statement presumes a husband or wife could never be in rebellion against God's will.
Please don't paint yourself as a victim, unless, that is, you prefer suffering as a martyr to creating solutions for yourself and your family (husband and children?). We can help, but we probably prefer to not just provide unhelpful sympathy.
Like others who have already posted in response, I'm glad you're here, but I will not apologize for being repetitively assertive about encouraging you to get to the point. If you had just started a post informing all of us that you are afraid your husband is going to force you into polygamy, you would have received support for that from the beginning. We are not responsible for the fact that you beat around the bush about it, nor are we responsible for the fact that you started off with critical albeit vague accusations that certainly read like they were directed toward us.
If anyone in Biblical Families is supportive of women being forced to accept polygamy, they are definitely a small minority among us. First of all, lots of our members are women, and I doubt any of them think women should just be forced into sharing their husbands. On top of that, even the men among us who have just giddily encountered the biblical legitimacy of polygamy as an option don't start off thinking that it's their birthright, and those of us who have thought about this for any length of time recognize, especially given that we're not living in 6th Century B.C. Palestine, that we have to persuade our wives that what we're seeking is acceptable or desirable.
So you showed up (apparently from the past but just reading for the past few years) being negative about something the people here mostly support -- aggressively stating that polygamy isn't for everyone and that people shouldn't be bullied into it, as if you had to convince us of one or both concepts, which you don't -- and you didn't mention a thing about your husband forcing you into polygamy. Furthermore, you compound that now by implying that you're a female victim of male meanness:
As it happens, we're currently embroiled in a serious discussion (https://biblicalfamilies.org/forum/threads/patriarchal-wannabe-catfishers.14991/) that incorporates the need to determine why women are more hesitant to participate on the forum threads (as opposed to the retreats, where, if anything, they outnumber men). And there may be some legitimacy to women here feeling bullied by all the alpha males, but I'm going to be frank and assert that I don't believe you deserve to paint yourself as being bullied by anyone in this forum thread. I imagine some will recoil, thinking I'm being harsh, but my opinion is that I would be doing you no favors by rewarding you for falsely painting yourself as a victim.
You are not a victim here. You received mixed responses to your original posting, because you were not straightforward about what you were writing about. Believe me, I understand all of the reasons why you might feel extremely hesitant to be straightforward. If you're being bullied at home, then you could possibly be afraid of your husband discovering that you're complaining about it online. If you're being bullied at home, then you may have just developed a general skittishness. But, until you demonstrate otherwise, there is something telling to me about how you reacted to the very reasonable reactions you received to your critical vagueness: you act like you weren't vague, when you were . . .
. . . then you act like you're being bullied by us . . .
. . . and . . .
I would have no problem at all talking reasonably with your husband about his approach, and I'm sure that, if you can get him to interact with us, privately or in forum threads, no shortage of volunteers to do so will exist here at Biblical Families.
But I'll be blunt: this now doesn't sound like a one-sided infraction to me. I started out wanting to provide you with support, and that hasn't diminished. However, given the way you've set this up with us, my suspicion is now that you aren't just an innocent victim of a bullying husband. And if you're still wondering how I could come up with such a conclusion, I simply point to this: we've just collectively experienced you painting us as victimizers of you, and that leads me to conclude that you're probably doing the same thing with your husband.
@PeteR is quite correct: your husband's side of the story would provide important balance.
This ministry exists to help people like you. Because the situation you describe is very difficult for a wife.
We're not just here to debate stuff. And everything up to this point has been unconstructive debate. But now we're getting to something we could actually help with.
What is this other woman like? How does she treat you, and how do you treat her?
The take-home from Keith's post is that your husband may be mistreating you in part - but also in part you may be perceiving things very differently to the way he intends.
In particular, I wonder whether your husband is delaying this marriage deliberately as a balancing act - he is trying to marry her because of his love for her, and trying not to marry her immediately because of his love for you, and finds himself in a very difficult place. This may be why you still have this issue hanging over your head, why you perceive him as intending to do this ignoring your views. Because he is taking his time and waiting and hoping for your agreement. There may be more love in his actions than you perceive.
But we would certainly value any opportunity to talk to him directly.
We're not just here to debate stuff. And everything up to this point has been unconstructive debate. But now we're getting to something we could actually help with.
@notforme, what is your present situation? I know your husband has been considering this for many years. How long has he been considering this woman? Why has he not married her yet - has he been delaying this because of your objection?
What is this other woman like? How does she treat you, and how do you treat her?
The take-home from Keith's post is that your husband may be mistreating you in part - but also in part you may be perceiving things very differently to the way he intends.
In particular, I wonder whether your husband is delaying this marriage deliberately as a balancing act - he is trying to marry her because of his love for her, and trying not to marry her immediately because of his love for you, and finds himself in a very difficult place. This may be why you still have this issue hanging over your head, why you perceive him as intending to do this ignoring your views. Because he is taking his time and waiting and hoping for your agreement. There may be more love in his actions than you perceive.
But we would certainly value any opportunity to talk to him directly.
What are the details about the other woman?
For instance there are situations where the man is obligated to take her as a wife... for instance perhaps he has a child with a woman prior to his marrying another woman. Then after the wedding he finds out about it and also later understands poly... he is now obligated to both women and should marry the mother of his child.
There is also the requirement to take his brothers widow if she doesn’t have any sons and raise up seed to his brother. Another obligation that would actually be sin if he refused.
Even if these circumstances are not your situation there is likely more to the story. Is your husband on the forum? If so it would be great to have his input on this.
For instance there are situations where the man is obligated to take her as a wife... for instance perhaps he has a child with a woman prior to his marrying another woman. Then after the wedding he finds out about it and also later understands poly... he is now obligated to both women and should marry the mother of his child.
There is also the requirement to take his brothers widow if she doesn’t have any sons and raise up seed to his brother. Another obligation that would actually be sin if he refused.
Even if these circumstances are not your situation there is likely more to the story. Is your husband on the forum? If so it would be great to have his input on this.
While I'm sure @notforme was influenced to post by feelings about her personal situation, it was my understanding that the original post was a talking point.
However, very little in the way of constructive conversation has taken place because of the perception that @notforme was targeting men on the forum. Her first reply clarified that she was not doing so. Now we know who she was referencing: her own husband. Whether she wanted to air her dirty laundry or not, she has been open.
I cast my vote in the "why don't women reply more?" poll. This is why I stay where the lovely ladies roam.
However, very little in the way of constructive conversation has taken place because of the perception that @notforme was targeting men on the forum. Her first reply clarified that she was not doing so. Now we know who she was referencing: her own husband. Whether she wanted to air her dirty laundry or not, she has been open.
I cast my vote in the "why don't women reply more?" poll. This is why I stay where the lovely ladies roam.
I guess I just don't feel inclined to post regularly. I have a lot of other things going on and if I have a Biblical question or concern I go to my spiritual leader @rockfox . If there is something I need clarification from a woman's perspective I bring it up to the Ladies of the forum. The women (and men) here give me a freedom of fellowship (in particular regarding Christian beliefs and PM beliefs) that I can't get otherwise.
I really don't feel inclined to join most discussions either, and I'm fortunate enough to be busy with my little one these days. 
(He is chewing his food as I type!)
However, there are definitely discussions worth having in the community that should be open to everyone. Discussions where input from the women would be extremely useful to the men. I gain a lot from reading a male perspective.
Though just because I'm not barred from replying somewhere doesn't mean I feel welcome. As someone who leans toward the more sensitive side (as I think most of us women do, at least compared to the men), I want to feel welcome in a discussion. I'm not here to fight! I'd like to chat and gain wisdom from others who come from different walks of life.
I digress. I hope @notforme returns because I'd like to help her, even if it is just providing a listening ear.
(He is chewing his food as I type!)However, there are definitely discussions worth having in the community that should be open to everyone. Discussions where input from the women would be extremely useful to the men. I gain a lot from reading a male perspective.
Though just because I'm not barred from replying somewhere doesn't mean I feel welcome. As someone who leans toward the more sensitive side (as I think most of us women do, at least compared to the men), I want to feel welcome in a discussion. I'm not here to fight! I'd like to chat and gain wisdom from others who come from different walks of life.
I digress. I hope @notforme returns because I'd like to help her, even if it is just providing a listening ear.
@notforme please feel free to contact myself or Julie as PeteR has said. We'd both be happy to speak with you. You're also welcome to join the ladies chat on Monday nights, 7.30pm Eastern time. You'll find a bunch of wonderful and wise women in there, some in PM and some not. Many opinions, and lots of love and prayer.
I also agree with other posters that having your husband on here would be a great advantage to the two of you. If he isn't on here yet then please mention it to him.
Agreed.
Agreed.
Sometimes true, but not all the time.
I presume by “he” you are referring to your husband?
Also true. I am always amazed at the number of wives who came to this first.
I disagree. That is not the teaching I see here most often. This does happen, no doubt, but it is rare around these parts.
I am sorry this seems to be happening to you. Really sorry. Obviously, no one here but you (and your husband, presuming he is here too) knows exactly what is going on, so it’s hard to speak to this. It hurts me to see someone else hurting though.
Frankly, I am not sure I agree with this. I do think it works better this way, and it certainly succeeds more, but I am not convinced that the wife has to be convicted of this, at least not at the same time. There are certainly examples here were wives came around later than husbands. I don’t see where the Bible gives the authority to the wife to determine if the husband takes another woman as a wife. HOWEVER, that doesn’t mean it is wise for a husband to do this.
I’ve read a lot of posts on this forum, and I don’t often see this advice from the mature members.
You’ve got a valid point here - vows are nothing to mess with. There are some who make a case that vows are unbiblical. I’m not going to go there in my reply. I’ll just reiterate, vows are nothing to mess with.
Interesting question for you: if there are no wedding vows binding one to monogamy, and a husband makes a rash vow to another woman as a second wife, should that vow be taken lightly? I am not saying he was right, but are vows always to be taken seriously, or only in some circumstances? Does the wife have the right to override his vow if she disagrees?
I agree, however, we also need to be sure we aren’t so closed off we can’t hear G-d, and I’m not accusing you or anyone else of this, and I’m certainly not making this a husband vs. wife thing. I am merely saying that I have seen a lot of people refuse God’s calling by ignoring Him. Again, not pointing fingers. Just commentary.
I am really sorry you are hurting so much. I’m also sorry that conversations can become like machine gun fire around here. I don’t think anyone here is attempting to attack you, but you are hearing a lot of opinions at once, and that can seem pretty intense. There are also those who debate more forcefully and with conviction than others. Some may be attacking, but I think generally speaking folks are sincerely trying to have and “iron sharpens iron” debate to try to get to the root of things.
I pray now for you and your family.