Support Poly Not For Everyone

[Phillip]

Interesting situation you’ve found yourself in.

Let me start by saying, my wife is a monogamy woman only. I believe polygyny to be biblical and good for society. Since I don’t plan on dying anytime soon, I’ve decided to use the gift of the Spirit known as patience. My thoughts are, my wife is my friend, my confidant, and I have no desire to lose her while gaining another. (That would be counter productive, since patriarchy is the goal).

Time is an interesting point-counter point topic time can be your friend when used wisely, aka investments. Time can develop into a sweet retirement. If you don’t start with a small amount, odds are you’ll never retire comfortably.

If I may suggest, take baby steps. Both you and your husband. There is nothing that stops the two of you from doing that. As I understand, 90% of the Earth’s population are monogamous. As I stated, my wife thinks monogamous. And yes, my word is a very important part of who I am. I said the words to stay true to her only. I will not break my word until she releases me from it. (She has told me there is one way she would say yes, it would be concerning her health. Not a good option)

However, we now can have open discussions on the subject, more like “Intense Fellowship”. Not always pretty, but oddly enough, it’s opened us up to open and honest discussions. We minister together, that open honesty aids during ministry.

If you and your husband could agree to a ‘time period’ for discussion and intense fellowship, it may help. As for me, I’ve read Isaiah 4:1 over and over. I believe the prophecy. If I am not to be a polygymist, I will aid in whatever way possible to help others success.

 

[Verifyveritas76]

Interesting question for you: if there are no wedding vows binding one to monogamy, and a husband makes a rash vow to another woman as a second wife, should that vow be taken lightly? I am not saying he was right, but are vows always to be taken seriously, or only in some circumstances? Does the wife have the right to override his vow if she disagrees?

That is a great question

 

[Pacman]

Does the wife have the right to override his vow if she disagrees?

It seems she isn’t going to respond so I don’t want to leave this one hanging for newbies to speculate about. The scriptural answer is.

No she doesn’t.

 

[cnystrom]

From reading G_d's Word, I don't believe that poly is meant for everyone.

I think pretty much everyone would agree with that.

In fact, there is some thought that if you can avoid it you should. Everyone pretty much agrees the polygamy is more difficult than monogamy.

There may have been instances in the Bible where poly seemed to work out okay, but there were also instances where it did not.

Same with monogamy, of course.

It seems like to me, that a man today who wants to be poly, thinks it will be different for him; all he has to say is G_d is making me do it.

This is kind of an essential point here. Is God speaking to him or not? Does God speak to people today? Is he speaking to this man?

Obviously if God is speaking to this man than polygamy is in fact for him. It is no longer an option.

On the other hand if God is not speaking to him, and he is not honest, and is basically lying and saying this to satisfy his human desires than this will not stand.

So this does seem like the critical point. For this couple to become clear to both of them if God is speaking or not. Clearly polygamy is not the real issue, but the fact that they are not on the same page about their relationship to God.

He cannot seem to wrap his head around the fact that poly is not for everyone. Some husbands want it and the wife doesn't; some wives want it and the husband doesn't. From reading here and living my life, it seems like pro-poly men today think that their wife is being rebellious if poly isn't for her.

Again, this seems like a marriage issue, not a polygamy issue. It could be about polygamy, or about moving to Cleveland. What does a couple do if he wants to move to Cleveland and she does not. How does a Christian marriage work in this instance? Does it make a difference if he says that God told him to move to Cleveland? Will she believe him if he says God told him to do it?

Why does the non-poly wife have to take such a beating (verbally, mentally, and sometimes physically) from her pro-poly husband, when all she is doing is trying to love him the way she said she would when she married him?

Of course, everyone here is in agreement that the beatings should stop.

But you bring up another issue. What if the way she said she would when she married him, is not the right way according to the Bible? What if you see differences between your vows and the way Christ loves the church? What if you see a better way to love your husband than what you expressly vowed to? Do you stick with your vows or do you follow God? Could personal growth be a factor here?

I believe that IF poly is "from G_d", then the husband and wife will both be convicted - not just one of them.

Why do you think so?

I have read on this forum, (over and over), that the first wife needs to submit, quit rebelling, and so on.

Do you agree with this on principle? Not about polygamy, but in every other way? Do you believe this reflects the relationship between Christ and the Church?

There are those of us that took our vows on our wedding day, with no intentions of straying from them. Have some made mistakes and strayed from the vows? Yes, (me included unfortunately), but the vows were made "until death do us part", not "until you mess up", or "I changed my mind/beliefs", or "I get tired of you".

For all the reasons you give, of course. Except for "I changed my beliefs". Do you think if God convicted you that you are doing something wrong and that there was a better way, then perhaps the couple might want to revisit their vows?

Do you viwe vows as something you need to live up to or something to hold over your husband to protect yourself, or both?

Is your motivation for yourself (selfish reasons) or because you really believe God wants this path for you?

Do you really want to hold your husband to a vow when he was a victim of the "monogamy only" fraud? Did he make the vow in full knowledge of what the truth was and what his options were/are? Do you love him and want the best for him?

I think we all need to continue to stand on G_d's word and what he teaches each of us, and not let others try to bully us to do something we believe is against G_d's will for us.

We all agree that no one should do something against your conscience.

Is there a specific verse you have in mind?

On the other hand your husband taking another wife is not asking anything of you. That would be between him and her. What is he trying to get you to do?

I am not getting down on you. I appreciate you coming on to this forum. I hope I have just given you some more things to prayerfully consider and think about from a different perspective.

I do not know you or your husband or your specific circumstances, so please take this as general comments on what you wrote and not specific advice for you.

God bless you and your husband.

P.S. There is a ladies only forum on here, if you would prefer feedback only from the ladies. Sometimes that is a little more comfortable. My wife tells me I am too black and white.[/QUOTE]

 

[cnystrom]

If the wife doesn't like it, she can leave.

Actually there would be considerable debate on here about whether that was even an option.

That would seem to clearly be a selfish action and not of God.

There are no stories of Godly women in the Bible who got divorces.

If it came to that it would be gut check (heart check) time. Are you really following God, or your own path?

 

[cnystrom]

You don't fix a first marriage by adding a second!!

Amen!

This was just a big topic in another thread!

 

[cnystrom]

Some husbands may want and demand having another wife, no matter what. That is not going to make the first wife accept it.

I think pretty much everyone would agree with this, too.

What in your opinion help the first wife to accept it?

Have you told your husband what you think would help the first wife to accept it?

 

[notforme]

I know I am stepping onto very thin ice here, but I have decided that some of you took the time to respond to my post, so it is only right for me to try and answer your questions.
As you have already figured out, I am not a politically correct person, I just say what I have to say the best I can to get my point across.
As I answer your questions please keep two things in mind. 1. What I say can and will be held against me, so I am going to be treading lightly. 2. I am not going to go into details on an open forum in certain areas.

 

[notforme]

Where did God say that? Can you point to the verse? Such a statement presumes a husband or wife could never be in rebellion against God's will.

The Word says "let no man put asunder what G_d has joined together". So, as has been stated already in this thread, a husband forces polygamy & wife 1 leaves. G_d knows this is going to happen with this marriage (and so does the husband). If G_d convicted both of them, they remain joined together. Yet we have Satan that has only come to steal, kill, and destroy; which is what just happened to this marriage. Some will blame the husband, some will blame the wife; but, it doesn't matter. The end result is the same, they have been put asunder, which G_d hates.

 

[notforme]

I don’t see where the Bible gives the authority to the wife to determine if the husband takes another woman as a wife. HOWEVER, that doesn’t mean it is wise for a husband to do this.

I think this is where common sense needs to come in. Knowing you are going to lose your first wife (over anything, not just polygamy), should be a flag that this couple needs to step back and work on their marriage.

 

[notforme]

Interesting question for you: if there are no wedding vows binding one to monogamy, and a husband makes a rash vow to another woman as a second wife, should that vow be taken lightly? I am not saying he was right, but are vows always to be taken seriously, or only in some circumstances? Does the wife have the right to override his vow if she disagrees?

MY OPINION only - If a man and woman marry and NOTHING about another wife is mentioned beforehand, then they both went into the marriage as monogamous. They stood before G_d and made the vows to one another, and as you said, vows are not to be messed with.
You ask if the 1st wife can override the vows her husband makes to another woman. Just a thought - does she even need to? Is G_d going to even recognize (honor, bless) the vows to the second, when HE was a witness to the first and what was said/agreed upon? Maybe, just my opinion, the so-called vows husband made to the other woman are only going to mean something to him & her, but not to G_d, since G_d was a witness to what was said/implied with the first. As has been mentioned by others on this forum, the husband and 1st wife haven't gone before G_d asking to be released from those original vows.

 

[notforme]

Let me start by saying, my wife is a monogamy woman only. I believe polygyny to be biblical and good for society. Since I don’t plan on dying anytime soon, I’ve decided to use the gift of the Spirit known as patience. My thoughts are, my wife is my friend, my confidant, and I have no desire to lose her while gaining another. (That would be counter productive, since patriarchy is the goal).

I also am a monogamy only woman.
The Word says for the husbands to live with the wife as the "weaker vessel". Some of us are weaker than others in different areas. That is just how G_d designed us, doesn't make us better or worse than any other mans' wife.

 

[notforme]

Again, this seems like a marriage issue, not a polygamy issue. It could be about polygamy, or about moving to Cleveland. What does a couple do if he wants to move to Cleveland and she does not. How does a Christian marriage work in this instance? Does it make a difference if he says that God told him to move to Cleveland? Will she believe him if he says God told him to do it?

We have made two huge moves during our marriage and both times we were in agreement. If we had not been, I am the type of wife that would have moved with him. This last move (this past Jan.), was very hard for me. I left behind children and grandchildren, but I followed my husband. I can't honestly say I would make that same choice again, since he has decided to bring the other woman here.
I would have to say adding another wife is a lot bigger issue than moving. You move, it doesn't work out, you move back. You bring in another wife, (knowing there are already serious issues going on), it doesn't work out, husband just lost a wife.

 

[notforme]

Could personal growth be a factor here?

I think everyone should strive to have personal growth in G_D.
MY OPINION - if a husband is forcing something as big as bringing in another wife, and the first wife doesn't agree with it, then she isn't going to view her husband as being a G_dly husband. She is going to view him as someone that is willing to do whatever he wants to her, without caring about the outcome. Now he has lost her trust and most likely her respect as him being a G_dly leader.

 

[notforme]

Do you agree with this on principle? Not about polygamy, but in every other way

The Word does say that a woman is to submit to her husband.
What seems to get overlooked is that the Word also tells the husband how to treat and love his wife. What is happening, in my own personal experience, is that because he wants another wife, he is going to do so. Having in his mind, because he wants it, then I should also, I shouldn't have a problem with it. Just submit, nothing else matters. Now we get to the part where I can accept it or leave. I'm really not seeing how this is a G_dly way to grow a family. What I am seeing first hand, is a family being torn apart.

 

[FollowingHim]

The Word says "let no man put asunder what G_d has joined together". So, as has been stated already in this thread, a husband forces polygamy & wife 1 leaves. G_d knows this is going to happen with this marriage (and so does the husband). If G_d convicted both of them, they remain joined together. Yet we have Satan that has only come to steal, kill, and destroy; which is what just happened to this marriage. Some will blame the husband, some will blame the wife; but, it doesn't matter. The end result is the same, they have been put asunder, which G_d hates.

Basically, you're saying to judge it by its fruit. If the outcome is bad, then God cannot have been in it, so it must have been Satan. Right?

I first need to clarify what you mean by "convict". You know that polygamy is a biblically sound option for some families. So you cannot be talking about God convicting people about polygamy being acceptable - both you and your husband accept that, so both have been "convicted" on it if we are to use that terminology. You must be speaking about God convicting people that polygamy is His will for their family specifically. Am I correct?

Has your husband told you (1) that God told him to take this other woman as his wife? Or, has he just told you (2) that God allows a man to have multiple wives, so he is going to take this woman? These are two very different scenarios.

If your husband is only claiming polygamy is permissible (2), your husband has no instruction from God. This is entirely a decision for him on what is best for his family. He cannot justify it on any grounds that God has told him to do it, so your argument above is unnecessary. You don't need to make this argument. It's not about whether God convicts one or both of you, because that's not what's happening.

However, if he is claiming "God told me to marry her" (1), then this argument is relevant. Did God really order him to take this woman as a wife?

The first question is, does God actually speak to him? Is he actively following God? If he tends to try and let God lead in many decisions, and this is not completely out of the ordinary for him, then there is a good chance that God actually spoke to him. On the other hand, if he is not a very godly man and has never made such a claim before on any other issue, there's a good chance this is just an excuse he's made up to justify his own desires and get you to go along with it. I cannot know the answer to that.

But you cannot judge this based on your reaction to it. When God told Abram to leave Ur and travel to a new land, did He speak to both Abram and Sara, or just to Abram? We're only told that He spoke to Abram. Sara was therefore expected to trust him. If Sara had decided this was a terrible idea, and left him so she could stay in Ur, would that evidence of an evil outcome mean that God had not spoken to Abram? Or would it just mean that Sara was being rebellious?

The fruit of this situation is determined by both whether the instruction was right, and your own reaction to it. It is not clear whether a poor outcome would be due to failure by your husband, by you, or both. So you cannot judge the instruction based on this outcome, it is too far removed and there are too many contributing factors. You have to go back up a step.

You can only determine this based on how well you know your husband and his relationship with God, not on how you react to it.

 

[notforme]

For all the reasons you give, of course. Except for "I changed my beliefs". Do you think if God convicted you that you are doing something wrong and that there was a better way, then perhaps the couple might want to revisit their vows?

Do you viwe vows as something you need to live up to or something to hold over your husband to protect yourself, or both?

Is your motivation for yourself (selfish reasons) or because you really believe God wants this path for you?

Do you love him and want the best for him?

I view vows as something to live up to. I'm not trying to hold anything over his head. Actually (I'm not going into detail), it is the other way around.
I believe that G_d wants me on the path of monogamy. I say this because of how strongly convicted I am on this.
I don't know that I would say I am holding him to a vow as much as I am holding onto my own conviction that monogamy is how G_d designed me. (which is how this whole thread got started).
Yes, I love him and want the best for him.

 

[FollowingHim]

MY OPINION only - If a man and woman marry and NOTHING about another wife is mentioned beforehand, then they both went into the marriage as monogamous. They stood before G_d and made the vows to one another, and as you said, vows are not to be messed with.
You ask if the 1st wife can override the vows her husband makes to another woman. Just a thought - does she even need to? Is G_d going to even recognize (honor, bless) the vows to the second, when HE was a witness to the first and what was said/agreed upon? Maybe, just my opinion, the so-called vows husband made to the other woman are only going to mean something to him & her, but not to G_d, since G_d was a witness to what was said/implied with the first. As has been mentioned by others on this forum, the husband and 1st wife haven't gone before G_d asking to be released from those original vows.

You could flip this around and say: "Does she even need to? Is God going to even recognise the vows to the first, when He was a witness to them and knew they were not in agreement with His word?".

People have always made foolish vows. This is clearly acknowledged in scripture, and it is clearly stated that foolish vows are "sin", and people can repent of the foolish vow and be forgiven for it.

Or suppose you make a foolish vow of any kind, whether its purpose is for good or for bad. When you realize its foolishness, you must admit your guilt.
When you become aware of your guilt in any of these ways, you must confess your sin. Then you must bring to the Lord as the penalty for your sin a female from the flock, either a sheep or a goat. This is a sin offering with which the priest will purify you from your sin, making you right with the Lord.

We are not told that blindly following a foolish vow is good and to break it would be sinful. On the contrary, we are told that either the vow itself was sinful, or that they have obeyed it and that obedience was sinful - somehow the person who vowed a foolish vow has committed a sin that they have to repent for.

 

[notforme]

We all agree that no one should do something against your conscience.

Is there a specific verse you have in mind?

It is 100% against my conscience. I have a lot of verses, but so do you. No need going around in circles on that one. Already been around the circle with my husband too many times to count.

On the other hand your husband taking another wife is not asking anything of you. That would be between him and her. What is he trying to get you to do?

Trying to get me to agree to go against my conscience/belief of what is right for our marriage. (Yes, I said our). Trying to get me to agree it is his way only, my opinion is nothing to him. "As long as he is happy" His words, not mine.

 

[FollowingHim]

I believe that G_d wants me on the path of monogamy. I say this because of how strongly convicted I am on this.
I don't know that I would say I am holding him to a vow as much as I am holding onto my own conviction that monogamy is how G_d designed me.

You are monogamous, and will always be monogamous.

You are married to one man.

Even if he takes another wife, that's between him, her and God. It doesn't affect your marriage (it might have very difficult practical implications for you, but on a spiritual level it doesn't change your marriage). You are not marrying her. He is.
You will still be monogamous, and will be married to one man.

Always do stick on the path of monogamy. That is what God wants for every woman. That is why you are convicted on it so strongly. God designed women to be monogamous and placed that conviction in their hearts.
That's why polygamy, in almost all societies through all of history, has almost exclusively been between one man and multiple women. Women are naturally monogamous - and men are naturally polygamous. That is how God created us all.