• Biblical Families is not a dating website. It is a forum to discuss issues relating to marriage and the Bible, and to offer guidance and support, not to find a wife. Click here for more information.

Burden Unable to Bear

Status
Not open for further replies.
You are under the impression that the "old covenant" and the renewed covenant are separate rather than a planned and connected continuation -- a software update if you will, that was preset for after the resurrection.

A renewed covenant would be the same as the old. What we have now is not the same. If it is not the same, it is new.

You misunderstand how we as commandment keepers live out the Renewed Covenant. We live it the same way the disciples did after the resurrection-- by guarding and keeping the commandments of life. Walking the Way that Jesus walked, since he is the Way, the Truth, and the Life and he kept the commandments faithfully in his obedience to the Father.

But do you keep them?

You’re referring to the disciples in Jerusalem, right? They were Jews, the law of Moses was their national culture, they weren’t required to change that. It wasn’t the same for gentile believers. Gentiles were never commanded to be circumcised and keep the law of Moses.

If we are "under the old" because we obey the Word, which in it Yah tells us many times to observe to keep it forever throughout our generations, then is that also your assertion of the disciples after the resurrection?

If you are not a Jew, God never told you to observe it throughout your generations. That is narsigesis, you’re reading yourself into the text.

26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Do you not see how the Sinai covenant is being contrasted with this new covenant in this very passage? They are not the same or renewed, they are separate and distinct from one another.

Hebrews 10:28-29 KJV
[28] He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: [29] Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

“He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses...”

“The blood of the covenant, wherewith he (Christ) was sanctified...”.

Two different covenants are being compared and contrasted here.

What is sin? See 1 John 3:4

Sin is transgression of the law. To which law is John referring? I’ll give you a hint, he tells us in this same chapter, 19 verses after this one.
 
So if the Law is done away, then how or why do we need to repent? With out the Law then there is no sin but if you say we have sin then there has to be the Law.

You are mixing up the referent. You think “law” in this passage is referring to the law of Moses, but that is not what John is referring to. Don’t stop at 1John 3:9, keep reading to find out what law he is referring to.
 
Having said that, the 10 commandments were delivered about this time, give or take a few weeks.
Agreed, and actually I talked about this during the teaching yesterday. But, if there's ANYTHING I might be willing to 'assume' when it comes to the Creator of the Universe and Author of Scripture, when there is any ambiguity, it's that He knows when He wants things to happen.
 
You are mixing up the referent. You think “law” in this passage is referring to the law of Moses, but that is not what John is referring to. Don’t stop at 1John 3:9, keep reading to find out what law he is referring to.
How can you read that any other way? And as for reading the rest of the chapter
1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
And I know already the rest of the chapter speaks on love for one another but anybody and everybody can profess love but actions prove otherwise but didn’t Jesus say if you love me keep my commandments. Whose commandments was He teaching. Deu 6:4-5 says to love God with all your heart, soul, and might and we are to love our neighbor as our self. That’s Torah (law or instruction). All of the new can be found in the old. It’s all one congruent message. The new covenant is for Israel. I don’t see gentile (or denomination) mentioned so what are we supposed to do. That’s why we are grafted into Israel. The branches are supported by the Vine. Not the other way around
 
How can you read that any other way? And as for reading the rest of the chapter
1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
And I know already the rest of the chapter speaks on love for one another but anybody and everybody can profess love but actions prove otherwise but didn’t Jesus say if you love me keep my commandments. Whose commandments was He teaching. Deu 6:4-5 says to love God with all your heart, soul, and might and we are to love our neighbor as our self. That’s Torah (law or instruction). All of the new can be found in the old. It’s all one congruent message. The new covenant is for Israel. I don’t see gentile (or denomination) mentioned so what are we supposed to do. That’s why we are grafted into Israel. The branches are supported by the Vine. Not the other way around
Read the four Gospels. Jesus also preaches to love your neighbor. To repent. Not to exalt yourself. All boasting in Jesus. We're talking about the "works of the law." Such as keeping the sabbaths, festivals, ceremonies, and physical circumcision. These things do not make a Jew -- a Jew. If you want to study what makes a Jew -- a Jew. Look into the faith of Abraham, Issac, Jacob, and Jospeh. They didn't even have the entire Mosaic law with the festivals/ceremonies/sabbaths, but were justified by God.

It's a change of heart through repentance and faith in Jesus. The pharisees and "experts at the law" kept all the ceremonies/sabbaths/festivals, but they are called brood of vipers. The Roman soldier with faith in Jesus alone is told he's going to sit with Abraham, Issac, and Jacob in the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus says "many gentiles" will sit with them. But many Israelites will not:

Matthew 8:10-12
When Jesus heard this, he was amazed. Turning to those who were following him, he said, “I tell you the truth, I haven’t seen faith like this in all Israel! 11 And I tell you this, that many Gentiles will come from all over the world—from east and west—and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob at the feast in the Kingdom of Heaven. 12 But many Israelites—those for whom the Kingdom was prepared—will be thrown into outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
 
Last edited:
Read the four Gospels. Jesus also preaches to love your neighbor. Don't exalt yourself. We're talking about the "works of the law." Such as keeping the sabbaths, festivals, ceremonies, and physical circumcision. These things do not make a Jew -- a Jew. But it's a change of heart through repentance and faith in Jesus. The pharisees and "experts at the law" did all these things, and they are called g about the about the Law. brood of vipers. The Roman soldier with faith in Jesus alone -- is told he's going to sit with Abraham, Issac, and Jacob in the Kingdom of Heaven.
I only refereed to love because of the end of 1John 3 that I was told to read. I am talking about the Law. Read my previous statement.
Jesus argued with the Pharisees about the laws that men added to the Torah, not the Torah. What does Jesus say in Mathew 23:2-3, 2. Saying, The scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3. All therefore whatsover they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works; for they say, and do not.
When in Moses seat, they read Torah but when the were not, they themselves didnt follow Torah. Jesus is saying to do what is read, not what they say or do outside the synagogue and Temple.

To no one in particular, just putting this out there. Let me say this as a last statement in this thread for me. It all boils down to a heart condition, circumcision of the heart. I dont observe the law for fear of judgement. I try to do it, what applies to me- Im not a priest, there is no Temple, nor am I a woman, but the Feast days, Sabbath, and other commandments that I can keep, I try to do to the best of my broken ability as a sinful man knowing I am able to ask for mercy through Christ that I am forgiven and continue to walk the Path the He has layed out for me. I do it out of love and obedience and a willing heart to show my love for Him just as I would for a spouse. I can say I love my spouse but my actions should speak louder than my words. James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without works, and I will show thee my faith by my works. Its not just doing Torah for Torah sake, its applying the principles of Torah in your daily life and how you treat others. With that I yield and Im out.
 
A renewed covenant would be the same as the old. What we have now is not the same. If it is not the same, it is new.



But do you keep them?
I'm not a jew, I'm an Israelite. How many times is a Jew mentioned in scripture, and how many times are the Israelites mentioned?

As a commandment keeper, yes I obey His commandments.

Gentiles were never commanded to keep Yah's commandments?

Exodus 12:49
The same law shall apply to the native as to the stranger who sojourns among you.

Leviticus 24:22
There shall be one standard for you; it shall be for the stranger as well as the native, for I am the Lord your God.

Numbers 15:16
There is to be one law and one ordinance for you and for the alien who sojourns with you.

I'm well aware His commandments were never given to Christians. Jesus never knew a Christian and never laid the way for the religion of Christianity. Its unfortunate that Christianity hates the commandments so much, but its not surprising since Christianity preaches another gospel and another Jesus just like Paul warned. Christianity preaches lawlessness, and nothing could be further from the true Messiah and the true message.

The Holy Spirit led me to Torah, so Yah is good. And He filled me with the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues. May Yah have mercy on all seeking and desiring His Kingdom.
 
You think “law” in this passage is referring to the law of Moses, but that is not what John is referring to.
Sometimes the hypocrisy is just so thick you can cut it with a knife. (Because they seem to IGNORE the sharp, double-edged sword that is His Word!)

Those here still honestly seeking Him should observe at least one thing by now. The Hebrew word "torah" is almost always translated into English as "law". As I hope is by now clear, that is at best mediocre, and often downright misleading, because of conflation. (Meaning, OTHER words are ALSO translated as "law". Especially things the "traditions of men" CALL "law" but that really aren't, and "make the commandments of God of no effect.")

But this is just rich. Those who despise His Word as Written, and prefer twisting it into "doctrines of demons," in order to pander to "itching ears" are so transparent they don't even hide the intent.

Because, SOMETIMES, you see, when it's particularly bothersome to those doctrines, they even try to claim that what clearly IS His Instruction (torah) doesn't even mean THAT!!!


You think “law” in this passage is referring to the law of Moses, but that is not what John is referring to.

Oh, NOW he knows! Better than John, obviously, and better than the Author, even.

The Jot and Tiddle Purgers have already (Isaiah 66:3-4, 5, and, oh, yeah, 17)) "chosen that in which He does not delight," and, clearly, their delusions have been chosen for them. They will NOT see. Arguably, if they eventually make t'shuvah, they can aspire to be "least in the kingdom."

But we are not only told to (like the Bereans) search out the Scriptures for OURSELVES and see if these things are True, but to "not keep silent," and (here's a bit more from His Torah!) "not stand idly by the blood of our neighbor," or tolerate false witness.

Read Leviticus chapter 26. (Yeah, I actually said that!) This nation, and indeed world, is in the process of seeing what happens when "lawlessness [torah-less-ness] abounds," and "walks contrary to Me." A whore church that has preached "doctrines of demons" - like, the 'law has been done away with' - is a big, BIG part of that.
 
How can you read that any other way? And as for reading the rest of the chapter

Well if you had read the whole chapter, it would have been clear. Read verse 23, that’s where he states what commandments are.

1 John 3:23 KJV
[23] And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
 
I'm not a jew, I'm an Israelite. How many times is a Jew mentioned in scripture, and how many times are the Israelites mentioned?

As a commandment keeper, yes I obey His commandments.

Gentiles were never commanded to keep Yah's commandments?

Exodus 12:49
The same law shall apply to the native as to the stranger who sojourns among you.

Leviticus 24:22
There shall be one standard for you; it shall be for the stranger as well as the native, for I am the Lord your God.

Numbers 15:16
There is to be one law and one ordinance for you and for the alien who sojourns with you.

I'm well aware His commandments were never given to Christians. Jesus never knew a Christian and never laid the way for the religion of Christianity. Its unfortunate that Christianity hates the commandments so much, but its not surprising since Christianity preaches another gospel and another Jesus just like Paul warned. Christianity preaches lawlessness, and nothing could be further from the true Messiah and the true message.

The Holy Spirit led me to Torah, so Yah is good. And He filled me with the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues. May Yah have mercy on all seeking and desiring His Kingdom.
I absolutely do not hate his commandments. But I know I'm not even close to being good enough to fulfill the entire law perfectly, and be justified under the law. I rely on my Savior - Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 15:10
So why are you now challenging God by burdening the Gentile believers with a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors were able to bear?

Matthew 11:28-30

Then Jesus said, “Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you. Let me teach you, because I am humble and gentle at heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy to bear, and the burden I give you is light.”

Jesus is the KING. The Son of God. All things were created for him, and through him. No man can come to the Father YHWH unless it's through the Son -- King Jesus. Jesus looks for people who love and have faith in him; and love their neighbors. Paul writes this in all CAPS in his letter:

Galatians 6:11-13

11 Notice what large letters I use as I write these closing words in my own handwriting.

12 Those who are trying to force you to be circumcised want to look good to others. They don’t want to be persecuted for teaching that the cross of Christ alone can save. 13 And even those who advocate circumcision don’t keep the whole law themselves. They only want you to be circumcised so they can boast about it and claim you as their disciples.

"The Cross alone can save." All glory to King Jesus - Amen.
 
12 Those who are trying to force you to be circumcised want to look good to others. They don’t want to be persecuted for teaching that the cross of Christ alone can save. 13 And even those who advocate circumcision don’t keep the whole law themselves. They only want you to be circumcised so they can boast about it and claim you as their disciples.
What a pitifully hideous "translation".
 
Well if you had read the whole chapter, it would have been clear. Read verse 23, that’s where he states what commandments are.

1 John 3:23 KJV
[23] And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
Amen - same message as throughout the Gospels. Love God (Jesus) with all your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself. Only through Jesus can we come to the Father. He is the only way.
 
I'm not a jew, I'm an Israelite. How many times is a Jew mentioned in scripture, and how many times are the Israelites mentioned?

Well first, same difference. Second, by what metric are you an Israelite?

As a commandment keeper, yes I obey His commandments.

All of them?

Gentiles were never commanded to keep Yah's commandments?

Nope.

Exodus 12:49
The same law shall apply to the native as to the stranger who sojourns among you.

You can make the Bible say anything if you pull the verses out of their context. This passage is not a command for gentiles to keep the law of Moses. This passage is specifically talking about a gentile who wants to keep the passover... he’s not required to, but if he wants to, God gives the method by which he may keep it.

Leviticus 24:22
There shall be one standard for you; it shall be for the stranger as well as the native, for I am the Lord your God.

This passage is a fascinating one because it shows that the Israelites knew that the mosaic covenant wasn’t made with gentiles. If you read the passage, there was a man with a Hebrew mother and an Egyptian father and the Israelites didn’t know what to do with him when he blasphemed because he was only half Jewish. In context the passage is saying the a gentile living in Israel who kills or steals or blasphemes or causes harm to a neighbor is to be punished the same under the civil authority. It’s not a command for gentiles to keep the whole law of Moses.

Numbers 15:16
There is to be one law and one ordinance for you and for the alien who sojourns with you.

In context, this passage is talking about offerings and states that if a foreigner wants to make an offering he has to do it the same way, but the foreigner is not required to bring an offering in the first place.

The three rules for sound biblical exegesis are... Context context and context.

I'm well aware His commandments were never given to Christians. Jesus never knew a Christian and never laid the way for the religion of Christianity. Its unfortunate that Christianity hates the commandments so much, but its not surprising since Christianity preaches another gospel and another Jesus just like Paul warned. Christianity preaches lawlessness, and nothing could be further from the true Messiah and the true message.

You’re the one preaching a different gospel.
 
Sometimes the hypocrisy is just so thick you can cut it with a knife. (Because they seem to IGNORE the sharp, double-edged sword that is His Word!)

Oh, NOW he knows! Better than John, obviously, and better than the Author, even.

But we are not only told to (like the Bereans) search out the Scriptures for OURSELVES and see if these things are True, but to "not keep silent," and (here's a bit more from His Torah!) "not stand idly by the blood of our neighbor," or tolerate false witness.

Are you still claiming divine inspiration on your hypothetical analysis of nonexistent original texts in Hebrew? Because what you are saying Scripture says, is not what it says in the original Greek manuscripts. You don’t get to write your own version of Scripture because you “just know” it had to be saying something different than it actually says. You’re a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
 
What do you mean? I’ve checked numerous translations, and they all say about the same thing. Which part do you not agree with, so I can compare the original Greek?

In a nut shell, Mark the mutilator has his own version of what he thinks the New Testament should say, based on the idea that he thinks there is no way God could have inspired Scripture in the Greek language. He thinks the original autographs were in Hebrew and then translated into Greek. However, there isn’t really any evidence for that theory. So basically he makes up what he thinks it should say and holds that out as gospel truth, which it isn’t.
 
Well first, same difference. Second, by what metric are you an Israelite?
The Holy Spirit.
& prophecy (written by the Holy Spirit).

Baruch 2:30​

“For I knew that they would not hear me, because it is a stiffnecked people: but in the land of their captivities they shall remember themselves.”

I dont consider myself a "Jew". And I don't equate "Jew" and "Israelite", though some might.

Matthew 5:17-19 makes clear that the gospel is far removed from lawlessness. I agree with Messiah that the law is not done away with. And my faith in him is the only reason I can walk in obedience. So I'm justified by faith, since he is my strength. But faith without works is dead so I obey because I love him. Its not enough to say I love him if my actions don't follow. My faith isn't mental assent. Its abiding in him who walked in obedience so I can do the same.

The problem is straightforward: Christians were never commanded to keep the Torah of Yah. It was never intended for them, it's not their covenant. They never agreed to it, never signed up for it. Jesus never preached to, for, or about a "Christian". That is the disconnect. Christians don't receive the commandments because it doesn't gel with their religion. A commandment keeping Christian? Where they do that at?!

All commandments don't apply to me. I dont have a menstrual cycle but Torah has instructions for those who do.

There are multiple places in Torah that one can see that Yah is no respect of persons, and Israel and grafted in gentiles keep His Torah side by side as brethren. Christianity doesn't fit that bill, doesn't want to be included in that, and thats perfectly fine. Christians worship "God", not YAHUAH Elohiym of the Hebrews -- the Elohiym of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

The "gospel of Christianity" is a Roman Catholic one, which runs counter to Yahshua the Israelite and his disciples and apostles. Christianity is anti-christ. Because it refuses the foundation of all Scripture, which is TORAH. Jesus (Yahshua) didn't overthrow his Father or His Word. He fulfilled the promises, fulfilled the prophecies, and carried out Yah's will of sacrifice and salvation. He did not come with anything other than what the Father gave him. And Yah has stated over and over that He does not change. The twisted and distorted doctrine of Christianity counts the blood of Jesus for naught, since its used to justify continuing in sin and iniquity (lawlessness). Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Yah forbid.

Gentiles join Israel as grafted in branches if they so choose and are chosen. All are connected to the vine. We keep the same law / commandments/ teaching / instruction because the vine teaches us the significance of doing so.

Matthew 19:17
If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Ecclesiasticus 19:19​


“The knowledge of the commandments of the Lord is the doctrine of life: and they that do things that please him shall receive the fruit of the tree of immortality.”

4Ezra.15:24​

[24] Woe to them that sin, and keep not my commandments! saith the Lord.

Baruch 4:1​

[1] This is the book of the commandments of God, and the law that endureth for ever: all they that keep it shall come to life; but such as leave it shall die.

1John.5: 2-3​

[2] By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
[3] For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Rev.12:17​

[17] And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev.14:12​

[12] Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 21:10-12
And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11

Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12

And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

^^^ Not a single gate of the Kingdom of heaven says anything about a "Christian". The gates are named after the 12 tribes of Israel.

So it doesn't matter whether Israelite or gentile, everyone entering those gates will be in the family of Israel. And no matter how much Christianity minimizes it, casts it down, or attempts to erase or replace it, our family [YISRA'EL!] has a covenant with Yah that He will NEVER break.

Psalm 89:34
My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.

Psalm 105: 8-10, 42-45
8 He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations.

9 Which covenant he made with Abraham, and his oath unto Isaac;

10 And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant:

42 For he remembered his holy promise, and Abraham his servant.

43 And he brought forth his people with joy, and his chosen with gladness:

44 And gave them the lands of the heathen: and they inherited the labour of the people;

45 That they might observe his statutes, and keep his laws. Praise ye the Lord.

Revelation 22:14​


“Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.”
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top