CHRISTMAS - Exposed!

[FollowingHim]

Evil is trying to take over True Judaism.

Absolutely.

True Judaism is The Tanakh/Old Testament.

Just to understand what you are saying (not be argumentative, I'm trying to get my head around your perspective)

1) What books do you include in the Tanakh? Whose list is "authoritative" and why?

2) Where does the New Testament fit in this?

 

[AbrahamSolomon]

Absolutely.

Just to understand what you are saying (not be argumentative, I'm trying to get my head around your perspective)

1) What books do you include in the Tanakh? Whose list is "authoritative" and why?

2) Where does the New Testament fit in this?

Good Question: I use The King James Version for most of my studies as well as Hebrew sources and Learning books for historic and translations. I do think The Historic books that had be left out have meaning in Old Testament and believe worthy to read and understand.

But I also believe there are possibilities that our understand of The New Testament is off in a few areas and I believe we must. Circumcision is still required and Keeping Kosher as well. I am a Jew who believes in The Mashiach keeping The 614 Laws as posted.

 

[cnystrom]

Circumcision is still required and Keeping Kosher as well. I am a Jew who believes in The Mashiach keeping The 614 Laws as posted.

Circumcision is forbidden for Christians (Galatians 5:2).

 

[AbrahamSolomon]

Circumcision is forbidden for Christians (Galatians 5:2).

How do you feel about this:

Timothy Joins Paul and Silas​

16 Then he came to Derbe and Lystra. And behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timothy, the son of a certain Jewish woman who believed, but his father was Greek. 2 He was well spoken of by the brethren who were at Lystra and Iconium. 3 Paul wanted to have him go on with him. And he took him and circumcised him because of the Jews who were in that region, for they all knew that his father was Greek. 4 And as they went through the cities, they delivered to them the decrees to keep, which were determined by the apostles and elders at Jerusalem. 5 So the churches were strengthened in the faith, and increased in number daily.

Galatians 5:2, KJV: Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

vs

Genesis 17:14

And the uncircumcised male child, who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that person shall be cut off from his people; he has broken My covenant.”

1. To circumcise the male offspring (Gen. 17:12; Lev. 12:3) (CCA47) See Brit Milah: Circumcision.

Genesis 17:12​

​

New King James Version​

​

​

12 He who is eight days old among you shall be circumcised, every male child in your generations, he who is born in your house or bought with money from any foreigner who is not your descendant.

Leviticus 12:3​

New King James Version​

​

3 And on the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 Corinthians 9:20​

“And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

(There is no way G-d would want us to play a wolf in sheep's clothing and saying you keep G-ds Laws to pull people in is wrong.)

(Jewish background
Paul was from a devout Jewish family based in the city of Tarsus, one of the largest trade centers on the Mediterranean coast. It had been in existence several hundred years prior to his birth.)

Paul killed "Followers of The Way" because he felt it was his job, why would he have pretend to be an observant Jew?

 

[FollowingHim]

Circumcision is an issue where each side picks their own proof-text.

Paul said not to get circumcised (Galatians 5:2).
But Paul had Timothy circumcised (Acts 16:3).
But Paul did not have Titus circumcised (Galatians 2:3).

Hebrew-roots people latch onto the circumcision of Timothy and make a big deal of it, mainstream Christians latch onto the non-circumcision of Titus and make a big deal of it. Each has some nice proof-texts they can cite to prove the opposite point.

But all those texts are true. Therefore circumcision is both permissible - and not mandatory. It's the only conclusion that can be reached while reading al fo the verses.

 

[The Revolting Man]

Good Question: I use The King James Version for most of my studies as well as Hebrew sources and Learning books for historic and translations. I do think The Historic books that had be left out have meaning in Old Testament and believe worthy to read and understand.

But I also believe there are possibilities that our understand of The New Testament is off in a few areas and I believe we must. Circumcision is still required and Keeping Kosher as well. I am a Jew who believes in The Mashiach keeping The 614 Laws as posted.

Alright you HAVE to stop using the term Judaism. You don’t know what it means or think we don’t.

Judaism doesn’t exist prior to the return from the Babylonian exile and it is not complete until AT LEAST 140 A.D.

There are no covenants with the “Jews”, only Judah and Israel. “Jew” was an insult foisted on the captive tribes by their oppressors. They wisely took ownership of it and turned it into a shield but the term does not signify anything spiritually.

Christ was clear, He is going to restore Israel and thus the Biblical tribe of Judah in the process. The “Jews” will be absorbed back into their original tribes and inheritances.

Your fixation with “Jews” is an obsession with a man made institution, albeit one that was probably necessary to make and was done so with God’s tacit approval.

 

[AbrahamSolomon]

Circumcision is an issue where each side picks their own proof-text.

Paul said not to get circumcised (Galatians 5:2).
But Paul had Timothy circumcised (Acts 16:3).
But Paul did not have Titus circumcised (Galatians 2:3).

Hebrew-roots people latch onto the circumcision of Timothy and make a big deal of it, mainstream Christians latch onto the non-circumcision of Titus and make a big deal of it. Each has some nice proof-texts they can cite to prove the opposite point.

But all those texts are true. Therefore circumcision is both permissible - and not mandatory. It's the only conclusion that can be reached while reading al fo the verses.

Not 100% Agree, but I agree that it confusing.

 

[AbrahamSolomon]

Alright you HAVE to stop using the term Judaism. You don’t know what it means or think we don’t.

Judaism doesn’t exist prior to the return from the Babylonian exile and it is not complete until AT LEAST 140 A.D.

There are no covenants with the “Jews”, only Judah and Israel. “Jew” was an insult foisted on the captive tribes by their oppressors. They wisely took ownership of it and turned it into a shield but the term does not signify anything spiritually.

Christ was clear, He is going to restore Israel and thus the Biblical tribe of Judah in the process. The “Jews” will be absorbed back into their original tribes and inheritances.

Your fixation with “Jews” is an obsession with a man made institution, albeit one that was probably necessary to make and was done so with God’s tacit approval.

Well I am Jewish even without Faith.

My Father has:
Ashkenazi Jewish
Ethiopian Jewish
Sephardic Jewish - North African
Mizrahi Jewish - Iranian/Iraqi
Yemenite Jewish

My Mother has:
Ashkenazi Jewish
Ethiopian Jewish
Sephardic Jewish - North African
Yemenite Jewish

So I am Jewish.

Brb

 

[FollowingHim]

Ok, so you are ethnically Jewish. But that's not what we are discussing. "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, but we are all one in Christ Jesus".

The issue is that you keep describing your beliefs as "True Judaism". The word "Judaism" has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with your breeding. It describes a religion, not a bloodline. @The Revolting Man was pointing out that you seem to not understand what this word means, and appear to be misapplying it.

 

[AbrahamSolomon]

Ok, so you are ethnically Jewish. But that's not what we are discussing. "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, but we are all one in Christ Jesus".

The issue is that you keep describing your beliefs as "True Judaism". The word "Judaism" has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with your breeding. It describes a religion, not a bloodline. @The Revolting Man was pointing out that you seem to not understand what this word means, and appear to be misapplying it.

I hear you are saying that being Jewish and Judaism is different, but this is completely a different view point from being a Jewish. To many and every Jew I personally know relate being Jewish to our faith in Judaism.

What is Judaism known for?
Modern Judaism evolved from Yahwism, the religion of ancient Israel and Judah, by the late 6th century BCE, and is thus considered to be one of the oldest monotheistic religions. Judaism is considered by religious Jews to be the expression of the covenant that God established with the Israelites, their ancestors.

So I'm am lost when you say being Jewish is not Judaism.

Just like Messianic Judaism/Jews or is there no one here who calls themselves a Messianic Jew? Because it is a type of Judaism.

Thanks

 

[The Revolting Man]

I hear you are saying that being Jewish and Judaism is different, but this is completely a different view point from being a Jewish. To many and every Jew I personally know relate being Jewish to our faith in Judaism.

What is Judaism known for?
Modern Judaism evolved from Yahwism, the religion of ancient Israel and Judah, by the late 6th century BCE, and is thus considered to be one of the oldest monotheistic religions. Judaism is considered by religious Jews to be the expression of the covenant that God established with the Israelites, their ancestors.

So I'm am lost when you say being Jewish is not Judaism.

Just like Messianic Judaism/Jews or is there no one here who calls themselves a Messianic Jew? Because it is a type of Judaism.

Thanks

I can almost see you furiously googling for another scrap of information between each post.

 

[AbrahamSolomon]

I hear you are saying that being Jewish and Judaism is different, but this is completely a different view point from being a Jewish. To many and every Jew I personally know relate being Jewish to our faith in Judaism.

What is Judaism known for?
Modern Judaism evolved from Yahwism, the religion of ancient Israel and Judah, by the late 6th century BCE, and is thus considered to be one of the oldest monotheistic religions. Judaism is considered by religious Jews to be the expression of the covenant that God established with the Israelites, their ancestors.

So I'm am lost when you say being Jewish is not Judaism.

Just like Messianic Judaism/Jews or is there no one here who calls themselves a Messianic Jew? Because it is a type of Judaism.

Thanks

Also, Jews help on Shabat if it's for a good deed. We are commanded to give to the poor and needy. I has posted The Laws and a lot of them simply say care for each other and be kind. But there are others not say I can't shave my beard or cut my side locks, I am forbidden to get tattoos or marks into my skin. We do wash before we eat and that is because cleanliness is close to Holiness.

There are passages found in the Old Testament that teach the people of Israel to be clean people. Shortly before the nation of Israel entered the Promised Land, God said that He would protect them from “terrible diseases” (Deuteronomy 7:15).Oct 12, 2021

Jewish people hear a lot about how strict we keep the letter of The Law and some might take a little to far, but think how would you feel if you people had been told. Here is my Laws keep them and I will Bless you forget them and I will Curse you and scatter you and allow you to be enslaved? So some try a little harder because one person can cause a curse on us all. Just saying it's a little stressful for a whole people to be responsible for each other in that way.

 

[AbrahamSolomon]

I can almost see you furiously googling for another scrap of information between each post.

Yes, because facts matter and what you call copy and past is backing up my point. How would you feel if all I did was post random information not stating where I get my information. I find it strange that posting factual information is seen negatively while posting just based on personal opinions wouldn't be seen as less accredited.

 

[AbrahamSolomon]

I can almost see you furiously googling for another scrap of information between each post.

Are you a Messianic Jew?

 

[FollowingHim]

So I'm am lost when you say being Jewish is not Judaism

Because biology is completely different to faith.

Most people of Jewish ethnicity do not follow Judaism. Most are atheists. Some follow Judaism (accept God but reject Messiah). Some are Christian / Messianic (accept both God and Messiah). Still others follow new-age pantheism or other beliefs.

Also, some followers of Judaism are not ethnically Jewish, but converts to the religion.

So you can be Jewish but not follow Judaism, and you can follow Judaism but not be Jewish. The two things are entirely different.

 

[AbrahamSolomon]

Because biology is completely different to faith.

Most people of Jewish ethnicity do not follow Judaism. Most are atheists. Some follow Judaism (accept God but reject Messiah). Some are Christian / Messianic (accept both God and Messiah). Still others follow new-age pantheism or other beliefs.

Also, some followers of Judaism are not ethnically Jewish, but converts to the religion.

So you can be Jewish but not follow Judaism, and you can follow Judaism but not be Jewish. The two things are entirely different.

Being Jewish is unlike any other Race, Faith or Nationality.
I have Jewish DNA and that linked DNA is Jewish.
My Faith is Jewish and I Believe my Jewish Mashiach Yahshua has come.
Any Women I marry and any adopted children I have will be Jews as well even if they don't believe just not an Observant Jew.
Nationality I am a Jew even if I was born in America, as I am First a Jew then an American

That what being a Jew is like.

 

[FollowingHim]

Being Jewish is unlike any other Race, Faith or Nationality.
I have Jewish DNA and that linked DNA is Jewish.
My Faith is Jewish and I Believe my Jewish Mashiach Yahshua has come.
Any Women I marry and any adopted children I have will be Jews as well even if they don't believe just not an Observant Jew.
Nationality I am a Jew even if I was born in America, as I am First a Jew then an American

That what being a Jew is like.

And there is the inherent racism of Judaism, which believes that there is something physically different about Jews from every other race.

While the Bible teaches:
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:28)
"Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all." (Colossians 3:11)

The Talmud teaches:
"the Jewish people, are called “man,” but gentiles are not called “man.”" (Bava Metzia 114b)
"the offspring of a male gentile is considered no more related to him than the offspring of donkeys and horses." (Yevamot 98a)

This is completely different to how Israel operated in the Old Testament. The Israelites left Egypt a mixed multitude (Exodus 12:38) - many Egyptians and others went with them - obvious examples being Moses' Midianite wife, and his Ethiopian wife. These people turned to God and chose to go with His people. Rahab and Ruth both joined Israel and ended up in the bloodline of David and Yeshua. David's mighty men included "Zelek the Ammonite" and "Uriah the Hittite" (2 Samuel 23), obvious non-Israelites who had chosen to join the nation and were counted of equal honour with the other mighty men.

In other words, ancient Israel started with the descendents of Jacob - but all others who chose to follow God were "grafted in" and considered equal, while those who rebelled were "cut off" as stated clearly in the Law.

And this process continues today - everyone who follows God is "grafted in", and those who disobey are "cut out" (Romans 11:24). There is no difference between any believer, race is nothing. We are all descendents of Adam, and of Noah.

Obviously there is an advantage to being a Jew - in that "the Jews were entrusted with the oracles of God." (Romans 3:2). They were given the Tanach, and Messiah came through and to them, so they had the first opportunity to choose to follow God. This is an enormous privilege. But it is a gracious gift from God to a people that are no different and no more deserving of it than any other - they are just the people He chose to bless first.

They were the children in the front row at the lolly scramble - massively advantaged over the others, yet still no different from any of the others.

The self-serving, arrogant racism of Talmudic Judaism takes this blessing of God and twists it in a way that is completely incompatible with a Biblical faith in God.

 

[AbrahamSolomon]

And there is the inherent racism of Judaism, which believes that there is something physically different about Jews from every other race.

While the Bible teaches:
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:28)
"Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all." (Colossians 3:11)

The Talmud teaches:
"the Jewish people, are called “man,” but gentiles are not called “man.”" (Bava Metzia 114b)
"the offspring of a male gentile is considered no more related to him than the offspring of donkeys and horses." (Yevamot 98a)

This is completely different to how Israel operated in the Old Testament. The Israelites left Egypt a mixed multitude (Exodus 12:38) - many Egyptians and others went with them - obvious examples being Moses' Midianite wife, and his Ethiopian wife. These people turned to God and chose to go with His people. Rahab and Ruth both joined Israel and ended up in the bloodline of David and Yeshua. David's mighty men included "Zelek the Ammonite" and "Uriah the Hittite" (2 Samuel 23), obvious non-Israelites who had chosen to join the nation and were counted of equal honour with the other mighty men.

In other words, ancient Israel started with the descendents of Jacob - but all others who chose to follow God were "grafted in" and considered equal, while those who rebelled were "cut off" as stated clearly in the Law.

And this process continues today - everyone who follows God is "grafted in", and those who disobey are "cut out" (Romans 11:24). There is no difference between any believer, race is nothing. We are all descendents of Adam, and of Noah.

Obviously there is an advantage to being a Jew - in that "the Jews were entrusted with the oracles of God." (Romans 3:2). They were given the Tanach, and Messiah came through and to them, so they had the first opportunity to choose to follow God. This is an enormous privilege. But it is a gracious gift from God to a people that are no different and no more deserving of it than any other - they are just the people He chose to bless first.

They were the children in the front row at the lolly scramble - massively advantaged over the others, yet still no different from any of the others.

The self-serving, arrogant racism of Talmudic Judaism takes this blessing of God and twists it in a way that is completely incompatible with a Biblical faith in God.

I Agree with most of what you just said, but I don't think The Judaism I know is racist.
It is late and I have so much to do tomorrow, Jews should Love Everyone.
My son is half African and I love him the same. I have African in me as Well (Ethiopian Jewish)
Again, if I Married a woman from every part of this earth they would be Jews too and so would our children.
But if you Believe in Him you are also a Jew by Faith. G-d Love you as much as He Loves me we are all His Children.



Being Jewish is unlike any other Race, Faith or Nationality.
I have Jewish DNA and that linked DNA is Jewish.
My Faith is Jewish and I Believe my Jewish Mashiach Yahshua has come.
Any Women I marry and any adopted children I have will be Jews as well even if they don't believe just not an Observant Jew.
Nationality I am a Jew even if I was born in America, as I am First a Jew then an American

That what being a Jew is like.

 

[FollowingHim]

I don't think The Judaism I know is racist.

The below statement is deeply racist. I know you did not feel it was racist when you wrote it - it's your culture, you're so embedded in it you can't see it from the inside. But objectively this is very racist:

Being Jewish is unlike any other Race

Switch the words and you can see the racism:
"Being White is unlike any other Race"
"Being Japanese is unlike any other Race"

 

[AbrahamSolomon]

The below statement is deeply racist. I know you did not feel it was racist when you wrote it - it's your culture, you're so embedded in it you can't see it from the inside. But objectively this is very racist:

Switch the words and you can see the racism:
"Being White is unlike any other Race"
"Being Japanese is unlike any other Race"

The only reason The Israelites are Special is because of G-d not me or any other Jew.