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Online dating…pointless??

paterfamilias said:
When I get my land and am doing the homesteading gig, I will likely invite everyone for plignicing(say it out loud and it will make sense). Then all the cool kids will hang out with me round a fire pit on half cut logs and gorge ourselves on brisket and bacon wrapped squirrel or chicken or whatever is slower than me.

Who is making the potato salad?
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I'll get Kristin to make her wild-ass potato salad if I can get that bacon-wrapped squirrel!
 
Is online dating pointless? Is any dating pointless? I think so.

The Biblical approach to finding a wife is to negotiate with her father --FIRST.

(I hate to sound like an anachronism, but that is what I am. ;))

Also, betrothal. Betrothal is an important part of marriage. Betrothal is the time to get to know the person to see if marriage to that person would be an enjoyable experience.
 
NationBuilder1 said:
Betrothal is the time to get to know the person to see if marriage to that person would be an enjoyable experience.
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No
Betrothal is the first step in actually being married. You have already made your decision at that point, you just haven’t finalized the marriage.
Joseph was going to divorce Mary over her pregnancy, they were betrothed.
 
steve said:
No
Betrothal is the first step in actually being married. You have already made your decision at that point, you just haven’t finalized the marriage.
Joseph was going to divorce Mary over her pregnancy, they were betrothed.
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I hear this a lot, and here is why I think it is wrong.

Notice that Joseph thought of putting Mary away quietly -- quietly calling off the wedding, in other words. The text does not indicate that they cohabitated nor engaged in sexual behavior before she was married. She was a virgin, after all.

Remember that, per Deuteronomy 22, a man has the right to bring an accusation against his new wife if she fails to bring her virginity to her marriage, an accusation of a capital crime. Unlike today's culture -- even among professed believers, sadly -- a woman's virginity, according to Biblical prescription, is a treasure, and a man who fears Yah shuns the idea of marrying a woman who is not a virgin. Only marriage (not betrothal) is a contract that cannot be undone -- physical intimacy is not consummated during betrothal, allowing either party to break off the marriage agreement without risk of the woman having lost her very valuable virginity.
 
NationBuilder1 said:
I hear this a lot, and here is why I think it is wrong.

Notice that Joseph thought of putting Mary away quietly -- quietly calling off the wedding, in other words. The text does not indicate that they cohabitated nor engaged in sexual behavior before she was married. She was a virgin, after all.

Remember that, per Deuteronomy 22, a man has the right to bring an accusation against his new wife if she fails to bring her virginity to her marriage, an accusation of a capital crime. Unlike today's culture -- even among professed believers, sadly -- a woman's virginity, according to Biblical prescription, is a treasure, and a man who fears Yah shuns the idea of marrying a woman who is not a virgin. Only marriage (not betrothal) is a contract that cannot be undone -- physical intimacy is not consummated during betrothal, allowing either party to break off the marriage agreement without risk of the woman having lost her very valuable virginity.
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Betrothal is an agreement to marry, not an agreement to date.

Where are you getting your information from?
 
NationBuilder1 said:
I hear this a lot,
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Well yes, because it is true.

Matthew 1:19 (KJV) Then Joseph her husband, being a just [man], and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.

She belonged to him because of the betrothal agreement, and he could have had her stoned because pregnancy was proof of adultery. But he was going to do it privately.
You are welcome to look up the Greek words that were used.
 
steve said:
Betrothal is an agreement to marry, not an agreement to date.
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It is an agreement to marry but certainly not unconditionally. Betrothal is the opportunity for the woman to enjoy certain rights (Deuteronomy 22:25) with the option of breaking off the wedding if they see fit. It is also a time to negotiate the marriage contract.

@steve, perhaps we are actually saying the same thing. Let's figure out if this is the case.

What we see clearly from Scriptures is the evil of a woman who fails to bring her virginity to her marriage -- not her betrothal.
Perhaps we should address the definition of "date." My understanding of this, according to the definitions of this wicked and perverse generation, is that the definition of "date" is a time for a man and a woman to get to know each other, spend together at the risk of appearing to be fornicating, have sex (fornicate), and if they like each other, get engaged so that they have enough time to plan an elaborate wedding. The problem with "dating" then is the appearance of impropriety, that is, the appearance of fornication. There are some charlatan "Bible-teachers" out there who will claim that premarital sex is not a sin, but I disagree with this conclusion. Per Deuteronomy 22:21, such a woman as done evil by playing the whore. Premarital sex (fornication) is not a good thing.
 
Deuteronomy 22:25 (KJV) But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die:

Why shall he die?
Because a betrothed woman belongs to another man.

This conversation has gone way off track with your nonsensical opinions. Just give it a rest.
 
steve said:
your nonsensical opinions.
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I have been accused of worse.

steve said:
Because a betrothed woman belongs to another man.
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I have always affirmed Deuteronomy 22:25 -- and all of Torah and all of the Bible, for that matter.

The distinction you may not be making is that betrothal and marriage are different. Betrothal, although a promise to marry, a time of affirming a decision to marry, is not a covenant that cannot be easily broken. Betrothals can end with no formal, legal certificate of divorce. Marriages are not so but are legally binding covenants broken only by death, although a certificate of divorce creates a legal separation and frees a married woman from her husband annulling her vows (Numbers 30:9).

Perhaps you are not saying this at all; perhaps you agree that betrothals and marriages are very different institutions. In which case, I suppose we have no disagreement.

(I was considering taking the "betrothal vs marriage" discussion to another thread, but perhaps there is already a thread here that discusses this topic. If so, would somebody point me in that direction? I did a cursory search but did not find an exact match.)
 
NationBuilder1 said:
There are some charlatan "Bible-teachers" out there who will claim that premarital sex is not a sin...
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No, just that there is simply NO SUCH THING as 'premarital sex.'

When whatever came before is CONSUMMATED, there is thereafter a marriage. Unless it was already adultery, or just whoring.

(Premarital is an English language invention, among other fallacies, suggesting that some licensed poobah is required to make it 'legal. This really isn't that hard.)

There is no such word in the Hebrew language.
 
Mark C said:
No, just that there is simply NO SUCH THING as 'premarital sex.'

When whatever came before is CONSUMMATED, there is thereafter a marriage. Unless it was already adultery, or just whoring.

(Premarital is an English language invention, among other fallacies, suggesting that some licensed poobah is required to make it 'legal. This really isn't that hard.)

There is no such word in the Hebrew language.
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What is “whoring”?
 
NationBuilder1 said:
Is online dating pointless? Is any dating pointless? I think so.

The Biblical approach to finding a wife is to negotiate with her father --FIRST.

(I hate to sound like an anachronism, but that is what I am. ;))

Also, betrothal. Betrothal is an important part of marriage. Betrothal is the time to get to know the person to see if marriage to that person would be an enjoyable experience.
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Isaac and Rebecca
 
NationBuilder1 said:
I have been accused of worse.


I have always affirmed Deuteronomy 22:25 -- and all of Torah and all of the Bible, for that matter.

The distinction you may not be making is that betrothal and marriage are different. Betrothal, although a promise to marry, a time of affirming a decision to marry, is not a covenant that cannot be easily broken. Betrothals can end with no formal, legal certificate of divorce. Marriages are not so but are legally binding covenants broken only by death, although a certificate of divorce creates a legal separation and frees a married woman from her husband annulling her vows (Numbers 30:9).

Perhaps you are not saying this at all; perhaps you agree that betrothals and marriages are very different institutions. In which case, I suppose we have no disagreement.

(I was considering taking the "betrothal vs marriage" discussion to another thread, but perhaps there is already a thread here that discusses this topic. If so, would somebody point me in that direction? I did a cursory search but did not find an exact match.)
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The word vow you are using does not mean what you think it means, look again. Go look at every time the word vow is used and let me know how many "marriage vows" you find.
 
NationBuilder1 said:
It is an agreement to marry but certainly not unconditionally. Betrothal is the opportunity for the woman to enjoy certain rights (Deuteronomy 22:25) with the option of breaking off the wedding if they see fit. It is also a time to negotiate the marriage contract.

@steve, perhaps we are actually saying the same thing. Let's figure out if this is the case.

What we see clearly from Scriptures is the evil of a woman who fails to bring her virginity to her marriage -- not her betrothal.
Perhaps we should address the definition of "date." My understanding of this, according to the definitions of this wicked and perverse generation, is that the definition of "date" is a time for a man and a woman to get to know each other, spend together at the risk of appearing to be fornicating, have sex (fornicate), and if they like each other, get engaged so that they have enough time to plan an elaborate wedding. The problem with "dating" then is the appearance of impropriety, that is, the appearance of fornication. There are some charlatan "Bible-teachers" out there who will claim that premarital sex is not a sin, but I disagree with this conclusion. Per Deuteronomy 22:21, such a woman as done evil by playing the whore. Premarital sex (fornication) is not a good thing.
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So I may be able to help here. We need to find the definition and consequences for the sin of fornication. Once we have that we can move forward with resolving the rest of the debate.

Now, having looked in to this before I can give you some pointers on where to look. I’d try the Catholic Church first. The idea of sex outside of marriage being a sin seems to originate with Augustine. I haven’t found it anywhere before that point.

I realize that there are some verses in the New Testament that forbid “formication”. We’re not looking for instances of the word though. We’re trying to find the definition and the penalty.

Good luck. If you find them then you will make a LOT of people very happy, many of them who have lost debates with me on topics touching on this point.

Just so you know what’s waiting for you when you come back empty handed; there is no such thing as sex before marriage. Sex either forms a marriage or brings a death sentence; i.e. adultery. There is no sin of sex before marriage because there can be no sex before marriage. Sex makes a marriage. Mind bomb in 3…2…1…
 
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