• Biblical Families is not a dating website. It is a forum to discuss issues relating to marriage and the Bible, and to offer guidance and support, not to find a wife. Click here for more information.

What is fornication?

Julia Mykaele said:
Wouldn't it be adultery for a man to have oral sex on a married woman?
Click to expand...
On consideration, that's actually even simpler. It's a sin to "uncover the nakedness of" another man's wife or a range of people closely related to you. It's actually not about what you do once you get her naked. Just getting her naked was adultery to begin with.
 
Julia Mykaele said:
I think that in Matthew 19:9 Christ is not talking about adultery, because the punishment for adultery was death. How is a man going to divorce a dead person?
Click to expand...

Heard that, but consider that this was after the scepter had departed from Judah. The Jews technically did not have the authority to stone anybody at this point, and the one time when they tried to get Jesus to take a stand, disobey Rome, and incite an actual stoning of an adulterous woman, He passed on it and dropped the "He who is without sin" bombshell on them. Therefore I don't believe the death penalty could be used as a given in this case.
 
Slumberfreeze said:
Heard that, but consider that this was after the scepter had departed from Judah. The Jews technically did not have the authority to stone anybody at this point, and the one time when they tried to get Jesus to take a stand, disobey Rome, and incite an actual stoning of an adulterous woman, He passed on it and dropped the "He who is without sin" bombshell on them. Therefore I don't believe the death penalty could be used as a given in this case.
Click to expand...

And for that matter, was there anyone ever stoned for adultery before said scepter deportation?

(In scripture)
 
Cap said:
And for that matter, was there anyone ever stoned for adultery before said scepter deportation?

(In scripture)
Click to expand...
I don't think so.... there was the guy picking up sticks on the sabbath, Naboth for (alleged) blasphemy , Stephen for pissing the wrong people off with the gospel, and Paul for the same (he got better).

I think there were a couple other ones but I don't remember, but I don't think adultery was in view in any of them.
 
John 8:59 (KJV)
Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

John 10:31 (KJV)
Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

I don’t see that it was an unknown occurrence.
Just because it wasn’t reported as happening in adultery cases doesn’t mean that it didn’t happen.
That assumption is a bridge too far.
 
It's just really odd that 3 commandments requiring descipline only 2 of them are referenced. Why was the required descipline for adultery left to ones imagination?
 
Slumberfreeze said:
Heard that, but consider that this was after the scepter had departed from Judah. The Jews technically did not have the authority to stone anybody at this point, and the one time when they tried to get Jesus to take a stand, disobey Rome, and incite an actual stoning of an adulterous woman, He passed on it and dropped the "He who is without sin" bombshell on them. Therefore I don't believe the death penalty could be used as a given in this case.
Click to expand...

the case of the adulterous woman is not inspired.
 
FollowingHim said:
Just for clarity @Julia Mykaele, this is an extremely controversial issue that individuals here have a range of views on, but is not something this ministry wishes to promote in any way, for a range of reasons. We do accept those who choose to do this within their marriages, because scripture is not clear enough for us to condemn them on this point. But I really don't want you to get the wrong impression and think we're all into wife-on-wife sex!

Much of this can be simplified with "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". Obviously none of us would want our wives to have oral sex with another man - therefore this is sinful. Father/daughter is also clarified if you're using a Catholic bible in Sirach (Ecclesiasticus) 7:24 "Hast thou daughters? have a care of their body, and shew not thyself cheerful toward them." Any sort of sexual excitement would breach this, even if it were not penetrative. So both situations are clearly wrong.

However you do need to bear in mind the scriptural definition of "adultery". Adultery is specifically taking another man's wife. Or, as a husband is in authority over his wife, it is a wife going from one authority and serving another - this is why physical adultery parallels idolatry, when people go from God and serve another god instead. So, if a man's wife does certain things with another man, that is adultery, because she is going to another man and doing those things outside her marriage, with another man. However, if the same wife does things with a second wife, also married to her husband,, she is not necessarily being unfaithful to her husband. Everything she is doing is still underneath his authority. Even if it is "sex", it could not really be classed as "adultery" as she is not going outside his authority - I'm not saying it's necessarily righteous, but I'm pointing out why things that happen entirely within one man's marriages don't clearly fit into the categories of behaviour we know are condemned as sin.
Click to expand...

Your arguments are very good :)
I learn a lot from Christians on the internet.

I agree that adultery is equivalent to idolatry. We cannot worship anyone but God. And the husband is dividing his wife's body, as if God is sharing his right to be worshiped with someone else. So will God allow us to worship anyone but him?

And really, what makes me be against lesbian and homosexual sex is genesis. I see genesis 2: 20,21,22 as a model of sexual intercourse that God wants. The only honorable sexual relationship in the Bible is between man and woman.

Christians who support lesbian sex do not approve of two women living together and adopting children. But the Bible also does not condemn two women forming a family, so what would your argument be that it would be wrong for two women to form a family without a man?
 
frederick said:
Not wanting to get off topic but that's a rather bold claim to make, and so emphatically, considering the majority of Greek manuscript evidence supports it's inclusion in the holy scriptures!
Click to expand...

This case of the adulterous woman is very strange. Christ acted as if the death penalty was wrong, but it is the law that approves the death penalty.

"For ye had believed Moses, ye would have believed * me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?" (John 5:46, 47) Since Jesus recognized that the Law given by God through Moses condemned grave sins as adultery and agreed with such a Law, how could he have said to the adulteress, "hath no man condemned thee?"

Moses condemned.
 
Julia Mykaele said:
Your arguments are very good :)
I learn a lot from Christians on the internet.

I agree that adultery is equivalent to idolatry. We cannot worship anyone but God. And the husband is dividing his wife's body, as if God is sharing his right to be worshiped with someone else. So will God allow us to worship anyone but him?

And really, what makes me be against lesbian and homosexual sex is genesis. I see genesis 2: 20,21,22 as a model of sexual intercourse that God wants. The only honorable sexual relationship in the Bible is between man and woman.

Christians who support lesbian sex do not approve of two women living together and adopting children. But the Bible also does not condemn two women forming a family, so what would your argument be that it would be wrong for two women to form a family without a man?
Click to expand...

I think you are leaving out the idea of wholesome love between two women in a wholesome loving family. No one is saying that a relationship between two women outside of a Christian family is valid beyond friendship, even a loving friendship. But even with that, a sexual relationship between women is pointless and does not serve the will of God and so love between two women that strengthens the family is the key and has to be viewed with the delicate balance that it is.
 
Julia Mykaele said:
This case of the adulterous woman is very strange. Christ acted as if the death penalty was wrong, but it is the law that approves the death penalty.

"For ye had believed Moses, ye would have believed * me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?" (John 5:46, 47) Since Jesus recognized that the Law given by God through Moses condemned grave sins as adultery and agreed with such a Law, how could he have said to the adulteress, "hath no man condemned thee?"

Moses condemned.
Click to expand...

The Son of God was teaching forgiveness, and that He has the power to forgive. It's an idea that gives each of us the ability to have a relationship with God even though we are mired in sin ourselves.
 
Julia Mykaele said:
This case of the adulterous woman is very strange. Christ acted as if the death penalty was wrong, but it is the law that approves the death penalty.
Click to expand...
The Law requires at least two witnesses for the death penalty (see Deut. 19:15). The death penalty is the maximum allowed against adultery (see e.g. Matt. 1:18-19 the example of Joseph "a just man"). There weren't two witnesses so Jesus acted in perfect harmony with the Law. Shalom.
 
frederick said:
The Law requires at least two witnesses for the death penalty (see Deut. 19:15). The death penalty is the maximum allowed against adultery (see e.g. Matt. 1:18-19 the example of Joseph "a just man"). There weren't two witnesses so Jesus acted in perfect harmony with the Law. Shalom.
Click to expand...

John 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
 
There had to be at least two witnesses to the act for he to be considered in breach of Moses’ law. Moses was the lawgiver but could not have been an eye witness
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top