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Support What to do when spouse rejects her faith

Daniel DeLuca said:
I am in agreement with Steve here. Without the friendship, there is no opportunity to undo the underlying damage.
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Sorry, but you can't break out of the friend-zone by being a friend. That's pretty much the worst possible advice. It's the one way that is guaranteed to fail. Niceness isn't going to win this battle; it only seals your fate.

Oh and withholding emotional considerations doesn't mean you're unfriendly or cutting off all opportunities; that's black and white thinking.

Daniel DeLuca said:
I am in agreement with Steve here. Without the friendship, there is no opportunity to undo the underlying damage. Forget about whether she feels hurt by polygamy! Focus on the fact that she thinks she has "discovered" that Christianity is wrongheaded, and undermine the reasons that form the basis of her unbelief. Keep the friendship going as long as possible, unless or until she fornicates with another man, and guide her back to the truth. Without that faith in God that she once had, she cannot accept polygamy as anything other than an archaic principle held by ancient people who didn't know any better.
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It depends on what one thinks the root cause of the marital problems is in this situation.

Unbelievers have successful marriages all the time. Her no longer being Christian doesn't make her suddenly want to leave him. Doesn't make her suddenly disrespect him or despise him. What's the root cause?

I don't have enough information to say.

What caused her to be disrespectful of him? What caused her to no longer be attracted to him? What caused her to not see him as her spiritual leader? How did he end up in the friendzone?
 
rockfox said:
Sorry, but you can't break out of the friend-zone by being a friend. That's pretty much the worst possible advice. It's the one way that is guaranteed to fail. Niceness isn't going to win this battle; it only seals your fate.

Oh and withholding emotional considerations doesn't mean you're unfriendly or cutting off all opportunities; that's black and white thinking.



It depends on what one thinks the root cause of the marital problems is in this situation.

Unbelievers have successful marriages all the time. Her no longer being Christian doesn't make her suddenly want to leave him. Doesn't make her suddenly disrespect him or despise him. What's the root cause?

I don't have enough information to say.

What caused her to be disrespectful of him? What caused her to no longer be attracted to him? What caused her to not see him as her spiritual leader? How did he end up in the friendzone?
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In a word, unbelief. Beliefs shape your entire outlook on life. As believers, we share a common worldview that unbelievers simply do not share. Their unbelief shapes their views on issues such as so called same sex marriage, abortion, transgender-ism, etc. That's why we see Jesus time and time again, commanding people such as Thomas, to stop doubting and to believe. He showed them the evidence, and basically told them to believe.
 
Man I just listened to a portion of the audio book "Jesus and Paul", https://www.amazon.com/Paul-Jesus-A.../ref=tmm_aud_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr= and Tabor here makes some patently false statements! He claims that all these ordinances and creeds and statements about Christ's Deity, can all be traced to Paul, not Jesus. Only someone who is completely ignorant of the New Testament, would fall for that lie! We all know that Ehrman pulls stuff out of thin air, so he is hardly worth debunking, but I can't help but wonder why FW didn't just close the book and toss it in the trash! The liberal media is always eager to promote some so-called scholar to purportedly discredit Christianity. The list of deceivers is endless!
 
I love Conservapedia
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I read their entry for Polygamy. It was pretty fair, up until the last line where they blew it.

If only there were some way for a knowledgeable person to submit a correction. (Not I, it will need to be someone skilled in arguing Greek translation.)
 
Daniel DeLuca said:
Their unbelief shapes their views on issues such as so called same sex marriage, abortion, transgender-ism, etc.
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None of those is at issue here. Again, unbelievers the world over have successful marriages. It is a normal human function as a social species. If anything, feminized modern Christianity only makes things worse. Absent Christianity, her outlook and worldview would default to her culture. IIRC Sean is in the Philippians which is majority Catholic and which faith (outside the US) takes a harder stand against divorce than the Protestants. Actually, at least as late as last fall divorce was still illegal there.

Daniel DeLuca said:
In a word, unbelief.
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How can unbelief be the root cause? Her loss of faith was preceded by her rejection of him as her spiritual authority. So what was the root cause of that?
 
rockfox said:
None of those is at issue here. Again, unbelievers the world over have successful marriages. It is a normal human function as a social species. If anything, feminized modern Christianity only makes things worse. Absent Christianity, her outlook and worldview would default to her culture. IIRC Sean is in the Philippians which is majority Catholic and which faith (outside the US) takes a harder stand against divorce than the Protestants. Actually, at least as late as last fall divorce was still illegal there.



How can unbelief be the root cause? Her loss of faith was preceded by her rejection of him as her spiritual authority. So what was the root cause of that?
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Sean Miller said:
Hey all,
Okay so in a nut shell, since she no longer accepts Christ or the teachings in the NT to be historically accurate she will no longer live by it. What does that mean? well it means she wants a divorce or something similar?? To not accept my leadership, to not submit to me or the scriptures, to not teach the bible, even though she says she thinks there is good about it. She will stay, for the moment, in my home but does not want any affection (1 week ago she was being affectionate), ie sex, and she does not want me to marry or bring another wife into our/my home.
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Doesn't sound like her unwillingness to follow his lead precipitated her unbelief at all! It sounds like the opposite occurred! Feminism, will always oppose polygyny, regardless of whether it comes from within the church, or from the outside, unbelieving world!
 
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Jeff Ray said:
I read their entry for Polygamy. It was pretty fair, up until the last line where they blew it.

If only there were some way for a knowledgeable person to submit a correction. (Not I, it will need to be someone skilled in arguing Greek translation.)
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It's a great resource to get counter arguments to some of the garbage on Wikipedia, but yeah, to my knowledge, there isn't a polygapedia out there.

The talk page has a nice entry from a MarkC who has more than one wife. That would be a great place to dispute the last entry, and to point out that that particular verse has been ripped from it's context.
 
MarkC is an old friend and prolific contributor to BibFam.
I can only assume them to be one and the same. Heckuva coincidence otherwise.
 
Daniel DeLuca said:
Doesn't sound like her unwillingness to follow his lead precipitated her unbelief at all! It sounds like the opposite occurred! Feminism, will always oppose polygyny, regardless of whether it comes from within the church, or from the outside, unbelieving world!
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Context. IIRC she unwillingly went along with him taking a second wife as he used scripture to show it was ok. Then low and behold, she finds a reason to doubt scripture.

But that's not even what I had in mind. If he was really her spiritual leader, why was she reading such books as that which caused her to leave the faith to begin with? Why does she take the book's word over the word of her spiritual leader? Why would she loose attraction to him over a change of faith?

There is more at work here. A change in one's religious beliefs doesn't magically make one loose attraction for someone. That's wrapped up in a physio-chemical process which is in large part independent of adherence to metaphysical belief constructs.
 
rockfox said:
Context. IIRC she unwillingly went along with him taking a second wife as he used scripture to show it was ok. Then low and behold, she finds a reason to doubt scripture.

But that's not even what I had in mind. If he was really her spiritual leader, why was she reading such books as that which caused her to leave the faith to begin with? Why does she take the book's word over the word of her spiritual leader? Why would she loose attraction to him over a change of faith?

There is more at work here. A change in one's religious beliefs doesn't magically make one loose attraction for someone. That's wrapped up in a physio-chemical process which is in large part independent of adherence to metaphysical belief constructs.
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Yeah, it looks like @Sean Miller tried some of the suggestions posted by @eye4them , and it was working for a while, but then he sort of forgot about using that dominating form of leadership, and went back to being defensive, and seeking her approval. This whole concept, is sort of new for me to some extent, and I know the temptation to go back and relinquish some of that masculine role God intended for us, but I think she needs more of that "Tough Love", where he doesn't ask her to not read those books, but issues commands and always ensures that there are consequences for not following those commands, and rewards for obedience. I have been putting some of that into practice myself, not that my wife has questioned her faith at all, but I find it refreshing to take responsibility for my wife's failure to submit, because I know that I cannot change her, but I can change myself, and I know that she will respond to it. I have told her that she doesn't have the option to not hold my hand in the car, when we go somewhere, so there have been times where she wanted to be cold with me, but she doesn't dare act out like that any more, out of fear of the dreaded consequences. I must say, it has drastically improved our marriage!
 
Good to hear @Daniel DeLuca. I think you might be right about @Sean Miller slipping. But I can also appreciate how difficult a situation he is in. Like getting behind the wheel of a car for the first time; except you do it when it's in the middle of a car crash. This can be hard even without the complication of her loss of faith and the poly thing.

But the good thing is, her created instincts are on his side; even if she is not.

Wive also find it refreshing when men take charge. It's a huge load off their shoulders when they can rest easy in his strong guidance knowing he won't let her fall, even when it's her trying to trip herself up.
 
rockfox said:
Good to hear @Daniel DeLuca. I think you might be right about @Sean Miller slipping. But I can also appreciate how difficult a situation he is in. Like getting behind the wheel of a car for the first time; except you do it when it's in the middle of a car crash. This can be hard even without the complication of her loss of faith and the poly thing.

But the good thing is, her created instincts are on his side; even if she is not.

Wive also find it refreshing when men take charge. It's a huge load off their shoulders when they can rest easy in his strong guidance knowing he won't let her fall, even when it's her trying to trip herself up.
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I know! It's just so contrary to the worldly advice we hear from our pulpits! We are told that we are being jerks, when the reality is that our wives need for us to be this way. Still I find it difficult at times, when we are at a restaurant, for example, and I ask my wife what she wants, instead of just deciding for her. I'm still getting used to this, but I love it, and I know that she does too.
 
Daniel DeLuca said:
Still I find it difficult at times, when we are at a restaurant, for example, and I ask my wife what she wants, instead of just deciding for her.
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I don't see why asking your wife what she wants to eat at a restaurant is a bad thing. I'd hand her the menu and let her go for it. If what she wants is over budget, then go for it, take charge. Or if it's more practical to just make a decision and order (e.g. she's in the lavatory when the waitress comes), go for it. But I think this sounds too much like being the boss just for the sake of finding something to be the boss about.

True leadership, in my view, would focus on leading where it matters, not pedantically controlling details just for the sake of control.
 
I am just a bit stunned by the idea of ordering for one’s wife, unless under the conditions that @FollowingHim laid out.
 
FollowingHim said:
I don't see why asking your wife what she wants to eat at a restaurant is a bad thing. I'd hand her the menu and let her go for it. If what she wants is over budget, then go for it, take charge. Or if it's more practical to just make a decision and order (e.g. she's in the lavatory when the waitress comes), go for it. But I think this sounds too much like being the boss just for the sake of finding something to be the boss about.

True leadership, in my view, would focus on leading where it matters, not pedantically controlling details just for the sake of control.
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I would say that I have gone along with that definition for years, and I am not saying that it is a bad thing to allow her to make decisions, but if you followed the links in that post that @eye4them gave out, you would see that being in total control, and making all the decisions, CAN be better, and may even be necessary in some circumstances as we see that it DID seem to work out for @Sean Miller for a while. Seeing as men and women are different, that can be hard for us men to comprehend.
 
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