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Support What to do when spouse rejects her faith

I'm struggling to find the links of @eye4them that you shared @Daniel DeLuca, can one of you post a link to that exact post or tell us what number it is in this thread?

I must point out that there are thousands of decisions in every single day that I could control, but I have barely enough time to make all those decisions for myself, let alone my wife also. I could try and control everything but it sounds an enormous amount of work. "No, you cannot eat an apple for your snack, you're having a pear". "Why?". "Because I'm making your decisions for you". I've got a life to live also! She can eat what she likes, within obvious reason ("no, you're not eating my socks dear").
 
I'm struggling to find the links of @eye4them that you shared @Daniel DeLuca, can one of you post a link to that exact post or tell us what number it is in this thread?

I must point out that there are thousands of decisions in every single day that I could control, but I have barely enough time to make all those decisions for myself, let alone my wife also. I could try and control everything but it sounds an enormous amount of work. "No, you cannot eat an apple for your snack, you're having a pear". "Why?". "Because I'm making your decisions for you". I've got a life to live also! She can eat what she likes, within obvious reason ("no, you're not eating my socks dear").
I think that would be a Reductio Ad Absurdum.
 
Thanks. I've read your post and the first article @eye4them , and the followup linked to from that for men. Don't have time for the rest right now. And I get where you're coming from, I really do.
And I see why you think my last post is a logical fallacy @Daniel DeLuca so I'll elaborate.

The first article in @eye4them's post is all about being dominant and assertive in decisions that actually have to be made, and where there is a reason for you making that decision. Things like "keep your cool", "hold her a little longer than she intended", "tell her to wear something you want her to wear" are all just common-sense and natural. And each has a purpose - even if the purpose is simply your own gratification (you want to see her in a skirt, you want a longer kiss), that's still a purpose.

On the other hand, deciding what she'll eat in a restaurant is an artificial addition that exists for no purpose - unless that specific choice has a rational purpose (another example: "you're on a diet dear, and I know you'll regret it if you eat that, so I'm telling you you can't have it because I love you, you're having the salad"). If there's a purpose, do it. If there is no purpose, not even your own gratification (do you enjoy watching your wife eat chicken more than watching her eat beef?), then why are you making that decision?

A man does things for a reason, not just for the sake of doing something.
 
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I think there is a purpose, and it is not so much about any necessity of control, but rather that some women like to palpably feel that her man is in control. ...in the vein of 50 Shades of Grey, the fastest-selling paperback in the United Kingdom of all time.

Think of it as a non-sexual kink that extends out of the bedroom. Though, these things tend to cause her to become very attracted to her master, and that directly translates back into the bedroom. So it's non-sexual, sexual.

...at least that's what I gather from my reading over at takeninhand.com, and God's gift to Him.
https://web.archive.org/web/20180301133159/http://www.takeninhand.com/
https://godsgifttohim.wordpress.com/

I think this fundamentally comes back to the Christ/church, husband/wife parallel.
Just as a man (ought to) seeks Christ as his ruler, so too also a woman seeks a man who will rule over her (Gen 3:16). I think part of the reason these parallels are in place is so that a man can see his relationship to Christ... looking at his own woman from a "Christ's eye view". Then she experiences this same thing looking at her children... and the older children looking at the younger, and all the children looking at the family dog,
 
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I think the difference comes when you ask yourself, Am I ordering the meal to establish control? Or am I ordering her meal because I am in control? Her response when you do it will determine which one you are. If she responds by cuddling up or thanks you or whatever, then you are the latter. If there’s a negative response, then you’re in the first category.

There’s a higher level of lordship than control over simple things like ordering a meal, but it can only be enjoyed if you are unquestionably in the latter category above. This level is recognized by the fact that you could unquestionably order the meal, but she is allowed to order her own meal as a matter of course. Not because it is her prerogative, but because it pleases you.

This is identified by you taking pleasure observing her choices, but if you ordered for her she would be no less enthusiastic with your company and might actually be more enamored with you.

IMO meal control should not be something exercised to establish the sub/dom relationship, but rather something exercised to enjoy the sub/dom relationship. Not to put too fine a point on it, but this means the dom/sub dynamic already exists.
 
Please let the record indicate that I am NOT endorsing 50 Shades of Grey. I've not read the book, I've not seen the movie; and I have no interest in doing either. I understand that the theme of 50 Shades is roughly comparable to what's being discussed here, and I use the sales of the book as a datum point regarding aggregate female proclivity.
 
True leadership, in my view, would focus on leading where it matters, not pedantically controlling details just for the sake of control.

This is a big problem when the topic of headship comes up. Christians insist on making distinctions between 'true leadership' (leadership they like) and 'controlling' (leadership they don't like).

Scripture makes no such distinction. The husband is just in control.

The meal ordering thing is a well worn tactic that many many men have successfully utilized. I've personally never done it, but it does work. Well.

And frankly, from a female attraction perspective, pedantically controlling beats nice beta boy every single day of the week. Not saying it's the best way. But it can work. Where it doesn't work is when it is controlling+unattractive or where you fail to calibrate it.

On the other hand, deciding what she'll eat in a restaurant is an artificial addition that exists for no purpose - unless that specific choice has a rational purpose (another example: "you're on a diet dear, and I know you'll regret it if you eat that, so I'm telling you you can't have it because I love you, you're having the salad"). If there's a purpose, do it. If there is no purpose, not even your own gratification (do you enjoy watching your wife eat chicken more than watching her eat beef?), then why are you making that decision?

The diet thing actually comes up a lot. But the usual case for this is in establishing early what kind of man you are. IOW: the dinner date.

Other places it works well:

1. Special dates (anniversary, Valentine's)
2. Adding some excitement by ordering something for her she never would but you know she'll love
3. Which is related to 2, by ordering something for her (and she loving it) you demonstrate your taste and mastery of her wetware.
4. As a way to spice up 'date night's'. The usual way of these frequently fails to produce results.

But for most Christian men, esp. judging by the aghast reactions, you should start with something a little easier.

IMO meal control should not be something exercised to establish the sub/dom relationship, but rather something exercised to enjoy the sub/dom relationship. Not to put too fine a point on it, but this means the dom/sub dynamic already exists.

The use of this tactic as I've heard it used was well outside a BDSM situation. And it is often used as part of a campaign to establish control. But it does depend where you are in this. The average Christian man still has his balls locked in her purse and may need to start with something easier. Namely: deciding where you're going to eat without asking her or when she says "I don't know where do you want to eat?" That's her giving you a chance to take control.
 
Just for the record, I wasn’t referring to a BDSM situation. Rather a properly calibrated masculine/feminine dynamic. One that is so rare in our “polite” society that it is often confused or misidentified. Basically, when viewed in public, others assume it is some form of role play because they cant conceive that a woman would actually enjoy and embrace her submissive role under a casually dominant man. This would be best contrasted with a woman who endures her submissive role under an overbearing dominant man. One who exaggerates his control, just to prove he has it.

I’d imagine casually dominant wasn’t quite as rare in early 20th century polite society.
 
I understand. I am just aware that there are two directions you can go with this, one healthy and one not. And it comes back to the spirit behind it.
I am just hoping that @Sean Miller will resume what was working for him, and that in doing so, his FW will understand his leadership and her responsibility to submit. As for me, I know my limits (I hate BDSM as I'm sure most men here, if not all, do), and I have been employing little rewards as well, so it is not just punishment, albeit the punishment was quite effective! She loves it when I say "Good girl!" to her, for instance. I can say that all this has in fact translated to the bedroom as well, as noted by @eye4them. She is concerned that we are engaging in too much PDA, especially at church. I love showing PDA at church though, because I know all these people are watching us, and I'm sure that they have a hard time understanding how we can be so close, when they know that I want poly and she does not.
 
Just for the record, I wasn’t referring to a BDSM situation. Rather a properly calibrated masculine/feminine dynamic. One that is so rare in our “polite” society that it is often confused or misidentified. Basically, when viewed in public, others assume it is some form of role play because they cant conceive that a woman would actually enjoy and embrace her submissive role under a casually dominant man.

Oh ok. I assumed that because you used the sub/dom terminology. You are right about all that. What most Christians call submission or equality today is really matriarchy. The closest thing to a normal human dynamic now is BDSM; hence the confusion.

Part of what goes on is women have been indoctrinated into matriarchy, even in the church, but they still have the God created urge for submission. BDSM acts as a kind of acceptable exception. It's ok for them (in their mind or in the mind of others) to embrace submission because it's a "kink" or "just about sex". The extreme nature of the average woman's sexual fantasies leads inevitably to this sort of thing partitioning.

casually dominant man. This would be best contrasted with a woman who endures her submissive role under an overbearing dominant man. One who exaggerates his control, just to prove he has it.

My point though is that 'overbearing' vs 'casual' is an entirely artificial distinction that has more to do with what the commenting male finds comfortable than with what a woman will find attractive or live joyfully under. This is where 'dwelling with understanding' comes into play. It's a judgement call every man has to make based on his particular woman, her history, her proclivities and most importantly his own abilities and desires.

The difference between a woman in joyful submission and one who merely endures it rarely has to do with the depth of submission, but rather the skill of the man dominating her (i.e. how attractive he is).
 
I love showing PDA at church though, because I know all these people are watching us, and I'm sure that they have a hard time understanding how we can be so close, when they know that I want poly and she does not.

Worse. They can't understand how ANY long term married couple can still act that way, still have passion, still have sex regularly after any length of marriage. For most the eroticism is long gone. They are mere roommates who sometimes have begrudging sex. Frequent, passionate sex and strong mutual loving affection are completely foreign to their everyday lives.
 
Worse. They can't understand how ANY long term married couple can still act that way, still have passion, still have sex regularly after any length of marriage. For most the eroticism is long gone. They are mere roommates who sometimes have begrudging sex. Frequent, passionate sex and strong mutual loving affection are completely foreign to their everyday lives.
I love being affectionate in public. Sarah has retained her youthful looks due to having a tonne of children (pregnancy is great for women hormonally), and we tend to hold hands etc when we can, so if we're ever out on our own on a date (a very, very rare event sadly...) people tend to think we're on our first date and she's a young thing I've just found and am besotted with. It's hilarious when you tell a waitress how many kids you have and how long you've been married, and blow her mind. We behave the same in church but it's more obvious we're an old married couple there due to all the children running around.
 
I love being affectionate in public. Sarah has retained her youthful looks due to having a tonne of children (pregnancy is great for women hormonally), and we tend to hold hands etc when we can, so if we're ever out on our own on a date (a very, very rare event sadly...) people tend to think we're on our first date and she's a young thing I've just found and am besotted with. It's hilarious when you tell a waitress how many kids you have and how long you've been married, and blow her mind. We behave the same in church but it's more obvious we're an old married couple there due to all the children running around.
Prayer of Jabez comes to mind.
 
I love being affectionate in public. Sarah has retained her youthful looks due to having a tonne of children (pregnancy is great for women hormonally), and we tend to hold hands etc when we can, so if we're ever out on our own on a date (a very, very rare event sadly...) people tend to think we're on our first date and she's a young thing I've just found and am besotted with. It's hilarious when you tell a waitress how many kids you have and how long you've been married, and blow her mind. We behave the same in church but it's more obvious we're an old married couple there due to all the children running around.

Same here. Most think my wife is 10 years younger than she really is; even those of that age group.

Women hot for their man like that, and women who have lots of kids, are incredibly unlikely to divorce. Yet more benefits of obeying the command to be fruitful and multiply.
 
Micromanagement would not be received well or work well in my home, however I can agree that in certain circumstances this might be a solution.
 
Micromanagement would not be received well or work well in my home, however I can agree that in certain circumstances this might be a solution.
If your wife is already submissive, that would be unnecessary, albeit, she might actually like having that strong decision maker deciding everything for her. In other cases, the wife might be submissive, but she has the hardest time making up her mind over simple decisions, and in those instances, the husband ought to jump in and decide for her. In the case of @Sean Miller, I think we could all agree, that would be a circumstance where this might be the only solution, seeing as how his FW has clearly demonstrated an unwillingness to submit. The challenge for us as husbands, is knowing when to take charge. Too often for me at least, outside distractions lead to neglect in this area, so I have been challenged to have sharper focus on being that authoritative ruler in my home, especially when I see the enemy at work, causing disruption.
 
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In the case of @Sean Miller, I think we could all agree, that would be a circumstance where this might be the only solution, seeing as how his FW has clearly demonstrated an unwillingness to submit.
Sorry, the statement is too overreaching.
You spelled I think some would agree wrong.

The jury is waaay out for me. In fact the jury is looking to hang the concept from the yardarm. By its neck.
 
Sorry, the statement is too overreaching.
You spelled I think some would agree wrong.
No! You could agree, if you go back and review his post, where he pointed out that he tried this, and it worked, and then see some of his later posts, where he reverted back to his old ways, and it didn't work out too well.
 
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