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Acts 15/Galatians 2 To C or not to C

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

This is a highly miss quote and misapplied verse. They are a law unto themselves why?

Because they are doing the things contained in the Law, Torah.
 

So this popped up the other day...
 

So this popped up the other day...
Saw that yesterday. Very good and almost exactly what I believe and have written about.
 
Saw that yesterday. Very good and almost exactly what I believe and have written about.
need to get speakers for my computer we had a dog who used the wires as floss and my tablet is dead and glitchy, Synapse maybe?
 
need to get speakers for my computer we had a dog who used the wires as floss and my tablet is dead and glitchy, Synapse maybe?
The synapse issue is between your dog's ears....
 
The synapse issue is between your dog's ears....
Auto correct is my bane. synopsis. I used synapses a lot this morning in a discussion about my sisters worsening ALS.
 
Are you saying that 14 years later they were talking to the same beleivers or were once again speaking to new beleivers.

Question how many times did the "new" testament call out beleivers for there Lawlessness?
They were talking about gentile believers as a whole. There’s no distinction between new and old in either passage.

Also none of the Acts 15 restrictions are pertinent to salvation,but are pertinent to a Christian walk after dismissing the whole mantra adding to this after salvation
 
Also none of the Acts 15 restrictions are pertinent to salvation

Wrong! Those were evidence of repentance. They were all directly involved with the false god worship those believers were coming out of. The apostles were telling them they expected to see those things stopped in their lives because without that there wasn’t true repentance. Repentance is absolutely part of salvation. The context is set in verse 1 ... (for salvation)
 
Also none of the Acts 15 restrictions are pertinent to salvation,but are pertinent to a Christian walk after dismissing the whole mantra adding to this after salvation
Were talking about those who drink milk, baby steps. Not those who are eating meat. The context is in the letters.

1 Corinthians 3:1-5

3 And I, brothers and sisters, could not speak to you as Spirit-filled but as world—as infants in Messiah. 2 I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready. Indeed, even now you are not yet ready, 3 for you are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, aren’t you worldly and walking in a human way? 4 For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere humans?5 What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you came to trust—and to each as the Lord gave

1 Peter 2
2 So get rid of all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all lashon ha-ra. 2 As newborn babes, long for pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow toward salvation— 3 now that you have tasted that the Lord is good. 4 As you come to Him, a living stone rejected by men but chosen by God and precious, 5 you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house—a holy priesthood to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Messiah Yeshua. 6 For it says in Scripture, “Behold, I lay in Zion a stone, a chosen, precious cornerstone. Whoever trusts in Him will never be put to shame.”
7 Now the value is for you who keep trusting; but for those who do not trust, “The stone which the builders rejected—
this One has become the chief cornerstone,”
8 and “a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense.”
They stumble because they are disobeying the word—to this they were also appointed. 9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, so that you may proclaim the praises of the One who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.
10 Once you were “not a people,” but now you are “God’s people.”
You were shown “no mercy,” but now you have been shown “mercy.”
11 Loved ones, I urge you as strangers and sojourners to keep away from the fleshly cravings that war against the soul. 12 Keep your conduct honorable among the Gentiles. Then while they speak against you as evildoers, they may—from noticing your good deeds—glorify God in the day of visitation.

The meaning of there is no Jew nor Gentile in Messiah is shown here. It shows that those grafted into Israel are not Gentile nor Jew they are Israel.

Hebrews 5:11-14

11 About this subject there is much for us to say, and it is hard to explain since you have become sluggish in hearing. 12 For although you ought to be teachers by this time, again you need someone to teach you the basics of God’s sayings. You have come to need milk, not solid food. 13 For anyone living on milk is inexperienced with the teaching about righteousness—he is an infant. 14 But solid food is for the mature, who through practice have their senses trained to discern both good and evil. (where do we find the definition of Good and evil)

1 Corinthians 9:8-11

8 I don’t say these things merely as a man, do I? Doesn’t Torah also say these things? 9 For it is written in the Torah of Moses, “You shall not muzzle an ox while it is threshing.” Is it the oxen that concern God, 10 or is He speaking entirely for our sake? Yes, it was written for our sake, because the one plowing ought to plow in hope and the one threshing in hope of a share in the crop. 11 If we sowed spiritual things into you, is it too much if we reap material things from you?

If the Apostles were teaching that Torah didn't have to be followed then why turn to Torah to make their point?

What was written in the Torah was written for our sake, but we don't have to listen to Torah? In the Hebrew culture to listen is to hear and do. Just like in Hebrew culture to know is not book knowledge alone but experience as well. As in I know it because I have learnt and done it. As some one in construction would you hire a person who knew how to do something because they read about it but never ac

They were talking about gentile believers as a whole.
Sorry I'm getting 1+2+3=1 moment from what your writing. First you said Acts 15 is all what is required (you might not meant to, but that's how you presented it) also said Noahide is all that's required which is more than what is stated in Acts 15 is all that is required. So the math there is not adding up. Then Your forgetting all the sins where reminded to avoid in the letters (which are beyond the ones mentioned in acts) that are Torah instructions. Please clarify.
 
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I'm curious, just a question... maybe someone can make this clearer than what I can see... how seriously should we take Titus 3 verse 9? ... especially the latter half of it? Just been watching this thread and wondering how this verse fits in.
 
I'm curious, just a question... maybe someone can make this clearer than what I can see... how seriously should we take Titus 3 verse 9? ... especially the latter half of it? Just been watching this thread and wondering how this verse fits in.
Context

But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about Torah, for they are unprofitable and useless. Dismiss a quarrelsome person after a first and second warning, 11 knowing that such a person is twisted and is sinning—he is self-condemned.

That if someone is challenging Yeshua Genealogy to say he is not the seed of David or that because there were not enough generations between Ruth and David and trying to use the Messianic prophecies in Torah to prove Yeshua wasn't the Messiah and cause trouble amongst the believers or try and say He broke Torah and was a sinner, which would mean Hes not the Messiah. warn them twice. If they keep on they are denying the Lord not just trying to understand.

Take it very seriously.

Its not saying don't talk about Torah. If that was what you were wondering. We shouldn't argue but we do, ehh.
 
Hmmm... it seems to me your response is a narrowing of the word "genealogies" to that of "Yeshua" alone, rather than as the word seems to indicate as being a plurality of genealogies in general - general just like the other words from your scripture quote "controversies", "strife" and "disputes" about the "torah". Could be I'm missing something, but it looks to me as though your take on it is an imposition of an idea of what "genealogies" is referring to rather than something self-evident and specific in the text. But if that's how you see it, I'll leave it at that.

You said:

"We shouldn't argue but we do, ehh."

Why do you do what you say you shouldn't? If what you just said is true, "shouldn't" that cease henceforth?
 
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I'm curious, just a question... maybe someone can make this clearer than what I can see... how seriously should we take Titus 3 verse 9? ... especially the latter half of it? Just been watching this thread and wondering how this verse fits in.

You haven't been around BF long enough, this is how it works. Foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless is just the way it is.

Or we could post more memes about polygamy.
 
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"strife and disputes about Torah for they are unprofitable and useless". It's true I haven't been around BF very long, but "unprofitable and useless"? Here I was thinking this forum was supposed to try and accomplish the opposite of that.
 
"strife and disputes about Torah for they are unprofitable and useless". It's true I haven't been around BF very long, but "unprofitable and useless"? Here I was thinking this forum was supposed to try and accomplish the opposite of that.

You would think, but probably better to get a bigger bag of popcorn and enjoy the show.
 
My dad liked the saying "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still"

I think discussing the reasons for holding a belief are very valid. Debates like this cause one to examine the position held and consider other positions and understandings. Even if an agreement is not reached at this point in time the evidence gets presented and the holy spirit can remind someone later....or add it to other witnesses.

There seems to be two kinds of people. Those who want to do right and those who don't care. I believe most here fall in the first category, and each of these are going to "stand" or "fall" in the eyes of his master.

It's food for thought....and further study.
It's only a waste if it gets deleted in my humble opinion.
 
@Frank S , one of the greatest pleasures in seminary was sitting around the table at lunch with other students discussing, and more often, debating Scripture. I had the blessing of attending a non-denominational seminary that had Arminian and Calvinist professors and students... It led to some very lively classes and lunches.

After seminary, I only rarely found pockets of believers who were interested enough in Scripture and it's cavernous depths to go to the effort of digging and refining and wrestling for truths. More often than not, everyone just wanted to be told what to believe, and that in simple terms so they could get home before the roast scorched in the oven on Sunday.

While this may seem contentious at times and hyper-detail oriented, I can tell you, everyone of these men are brothers and we enjoy great big hugs at the Retreats and face to face meetings. Some I've had in my home or met on the road for a meal. Wonderful brothers (and a few brave sisters who wade into the 'lion's den :eek: ) are these.

The discussions and debate are iron sharpening iron by men and women earnestly seeking truth and willing to dig to understand how the pieces fit together. If this challenges you, provide alternate solutions to the understandings presented, but be prepared to defend well your thoughts. If you prefer not to engage at this level, then skip the thread. Or, if you want to learn and grow without wading in... get some popcorn and watch the show.

Bottom line, as long as there is no name calling or bloodletting, this is a healthy prospect exceedingly rare in the world around us. Treasure it as the day may come when you can't and don't even have access to the records of us having ever been on the web.

Shalom and blessings.
 
"strife and disputes about Torah for they are unprofitable and useless". It's true I haven't been around BF very long, but "unprofitable and useless"? Here I was thinking this forum was supposed to try and accomplish the opposite of that.

“And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:15-17‬ ‭ESV‬‬


You are using one verse from Paul to explain away a clear principle in scripture. Exactly what Peter warned us about. What did Yeshua do? He constantly “disputed” with the Pharisees and disputed their lawlessness. Titus 3:9 is not telling us to allow the teaching of lawlessness to go unchecked. There is a standard of righteousness that Yah expects us to live by and it’s important to define it...
 
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“And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:15-17‬ ‭ESV‬‬


You are using one verse from Paul to explain away a clear principle in scripture. Exactly what Peter warned us about. What did Yeshua do? He constantly “disputed” with the Pharisees and disputed their lawlessness. Titus 2:9 is not telling us to allow the teaching of lawlessness to go unchecked. There is a standard of righteousness that Yah expects us to live by and it’s important to define it...

So just to be clear - are you saying strife and disputes about Torah are actually profitable and useful?
 
So just to be clear - are you saying strife and disputes about Torah are actually profitable and useful?

No I’m saying that what we are doing is not what Paul was speaking against. Otherwise he would have been speaking against his own actions as well as the actions of Yeshua and every prophet and judge of Israel and Judah. You are misunderstanding Paul. You are doing the very definition of cherry picking.
 
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