If the water fell down, which I believe it did, how did it get back up there? God placed water above the firmament at creation and that water canopy collapsed during the flood, it’s no longer there.
-
Biblical Families is not a dating website. It is a forum to discuss issues relating to marriage and the Bible, and to offer guidance and support, not to find a wife. Click here for more information.
All History Before 1600's is "Questionable"
- Thread starter Earth_is-
- Start date
- Status
If the water fell down, which I believe it did, how did it get back up there? God placed water above the firmament at creation and that water canopy collapsed during the flood, it’s no longer there.
I answered this already.
The waters returned after the flood
“and the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated.”
Genesis 8:3
And the water was definitely there as this psalmist was inspired to write of it, way after Noah.
“Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, And ye waters that be above the heavens.”
Psalm 148:4
When in the bible does it say there is no longer any water, or that this never before heard of canopy has vanquished?
There's more than one resurrection. Jesus' 2nd coming is the "first resurrection." There's a 2nd resurrection after the 1000 year reign:
Here's the Scripture:
Revelation 20:5
(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
Everyone else is resurrected after the 1000 year reign. Scripture doesn't exactly say when after the 1000 year reign.
However, for the "Great White Throne of Judgement" there's a resurrection of the dead. Anyone who's name is written in the Book of Life -- will inherit the "New Earth and New Heavens." NEW JERUSALEM. There will be no longer tears. No more pain. Satan is thrown in the lake of fire. No more death. Peace. Eternal life. God will live with his people. The Great White Throne of Judgement is the final event before New Earth and New Heavens. It's obvious we're still living in the old earth, and satan is alive and well (trying to drag as many people down with him as possible before Judgement Day). So the Great White Throne of Judgement has 100% not occurred yet.
But if your name isn't written - you're thrown in the lake of fire along with satan and his angels. This is the 2nd death. So the 2nd coming already occurring has "absolutely zero" affect on salvation.
This is a good video on the introduction to the deceptions of the dark ages, and satan being unbound:
Last edited:
The waters receded. “The waters receded from off the earth continually. After the end of one hundred fifty days the waters decreased.”
(Genesis 8:3 WEB)
There is evidence of the water receding all over the planet or disc or whatever we’re on. The whole surface of the earth is messed up from the flood, God didn’t put everything back the way it was before the flood.
Yeah there’s water above the firmament, that doesn’t mean it’s a canopy or whatever word you prefer.
Does it need to say it in the Bible for it to be the case?
Psalm 104:5
He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved.
1 Chronicles 16:30
Tremble before Him, all the earth; Indeed, the world is firmly established, it will not be moved
Joshua 10:12-14
Joshua said to the Lord in the presence of Israel:
“Sun, stand still over Gibeon,
and you, moon, over the Valley of Aijalon.”
13 So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped,
till the nation avenged itself on its enemies,
The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day. 14 There has never been a day like it before or since, a day when the Lord listened to a human being. Surely the Lord was fighting for Israel!
So YHWH says the sun is the one that moves. And the earth stands still. Satan, whom is known for twisting the truth, says the sun stands still, and the earth moves. What is up is down for Satan. What is down is up. That’s why he likes that cross up-side down. That’s why he’s going after children telling male is female, and female is male.
This pastor introduced flat earth to his congregation and does a good job showing scripture - real world evidence - and who’s pulling the strings on the globe earth/universe and why:
Proverbs 18:13
He who answers a matter before he hears it, It is folly and shame to him.
- Hear the pastor and what he says entirely. He gives a great presentation on the subject matter.
Last edited:
True. So:
1) If the first resurrection happened in the first century, who was resurrected in it? Where are the records of loads of martyrs coming to life again?
2) If the 1000 year reign ended in the 11th century, surely that would be when the second resurrection occurred? Did it happen then or is it still a future event?
1) The first resurrection were the saints of God. They received new glorified bodies. Those whom had the Holy Spirit. The apostles. The disciples. Israelites and gentiles. It included those that were dead - either through refusing the mark of the beast, persecuted for being Christian, or natural death causes.
Caesar Nero persecuted Christians for 3.5 years - starting around 64 AD. Nero's name also adds up to 666. He died 68 AD - which then brought forth the destruction of Jerusalem, and 2nd coming of Christ around 70 AD.
You asked for records of the event. But if this is truly Satan's season - then Scripture must be fulfilled. Satan will deceive all the nations. Therefore, such open knowledge of a 1000 year reign would be well hidden during that season. However, three different pagan roman writers wrote about seeing miraculous signs of chariots and angelic hosts in the clouds during the fall of Jerusalem:
2) Scripture says "rest of the dead will be resurrected after 1000 year reign." Is it possible this verse is actually referring to the Great White Throne of Judgement? Because the dead are resurrected for that final event before New Heavens and New Earth. This is one area I haven't studied or prayed on. So I do not know.
There is also speculation that this "rest of the dead resurrection" is referring to people that either refused Christ, or never had a chance to hear about him. So they'd be given a 2nd chance. If that's the case - I doubt they'd be resurrected in the 11th century (right after the 1000 year reign ended). That's the golden ticket. Not even satan was able to deceive anyone during that time-frame. The "Renaissance and Enlightenment" periods was when satan began to get some headway. There is some evidence to support this. There was a massive influx of orphans in the 18th century. We're talking about 250,000+ just in the United States. There's only speculation where they came from. But you can google "Orphan Trains 1800's." This 3 min video below goes into detail a little bit:
Caesar Nero persecuted Christians for 3.5 years - starting around 64 AD. Nero's name also adds up to 666. He died 68 AD - which then brought forth the destruction of Jerusalem, and 2nd coming of Christ around 70 AD.
You asked for records of the event. But if this is truly Satan's season - then Scripture must be fulfilled. Satan will deceive all the nations. Therefore, such open knowledge of a 1000 year reign would be well hidden during that season. However, three different pagan roman writers wrote about seeing miraculous signs of chariots and angelic hosts in the clouds during the fall of Jerusalem:
2) Scripture says "rest of the dead will be resurrected after 1000 year reign." Is it possible this verse is actually referring to the Great White Throne of Judgement? Because the dead are resurrected for that final event before New Heavens and New Earth. This is one area I haven't studied or prayed on. So I do not know.
There is also speculation that this "rest of the dead resurrection" is referring to people that either refused Christ, or never had a chance to hear about him. So they'd be given a 2nd chance. If that's the case - I doubt they'd be resurrected in the 11th century (right after the 1000 year reign ended). That's the golden ticket. Not even satan was able to deceive anyone during that time-frame. The "Renaissance and Enlightenment" periods was when satan began to get some headway. There is some evidence to support this. There was a massive influx of orphans in the 18th century. We're talking about 250,000+ just in the United States. There's only speculation where they came from. But you can google "Orphan Trains 1800's." This 3 min video below goes into detail a little bit:
1) So there are no records of any resurrections, just some visions of chariots and so forth which are honestly unsurprising at an event as momentous as the sack of Jerusalem, they do not necessarily have anything to do with the coming of Christ. With no actual records of this, where has the idea come from?
2) Lots of problems, as you say you haven't figured this all out yourself. It all hangs on whether the second coming of Christ was in the first century anyway and everything else is an attempt to reinterpret history to fit that proposition. Best to just work out whether that is true as that is the key.
2) Lots of problems, as you say you haven't figured this all out yourself. It all hangs on whether the second coming of Christ was in the first century anyway and everything else is an attempt to reinterpret history to fit that proposition. Best to just work out whether that is true as that is the key.
I can't go into any debate about this as I am neither a Rabbi, historian, or scholar, but it was my understanding that just prior to Yeshua's second coming, almost everyone would get wiped out (I don't see where that happened), massive earthquakes would level every mountain (I live near the still towering Smokies), a third of all the waters on the earth would become undrinkable (we appear to be just now approaching that), and men would beg to die, but not be able to. AFTER His second coming, things are supposed to get so good that the sowers will be unable to stay ahead of the reapers and a person living to 100 will still be considered young.
All I can say is if all this we are living in today is all post-second coming, I may have put my faith in the wrong book. But I don't think so. If you can explain how I am misunderstanding what I've read for 40+ years, that would be great.
I definitely don’t have all the answers. I don’t think anyone can honestly claim they do. Not the pope, priest, elder, pastor, or anyone.
But, per scripture, looking at all of it with an un-biased lens, I can very confidently say Jesus 2nd coming was in the 1st century. Therefore, the 1000 year period also finished. If you look everywhere around you - it’s so clear we are living in Satan’s little season. Therefore we are much further in the Bible timeline than most people are lead to believe.
I do believe I know where the camp of the saints is/was. What’s known as “Mount Zion.” The throne of King Jesus. Ezekiel 38:12 describes the camp of the saints being in the middle of the earth. If you look at the real map of the earth (flat earth map), the middle is the “north pole.” Mount Zion is described as the throne of King Jesus - from where he will reign over all the nations of the earth. This place is not “Jerusalem.” Because the location is described is in the far north:
Psalm 48
Great is the Lord and greatly to be praised in the city of our God! His holy mountain, beautiful in elevation, is the joy of all the earth, Mount Zion, in the far north, the city of the great King.
Jerusalem is not in the far north…..
There are several ancient maps from the 1500‘s depicting the North Pole. And right in the middle - there’s a very huge mountain. This is one such map:
Last edited:
Jesus’ 2nd coming, from scripture, occurred in the 1st century. Therefore, the Great Tribulation, the worst period in human history has happened almost 2000 years ago. There was a great earthquake. However that was almost 2000 years ago too.
After Jesus’ 2nd coming there was a Golden Age - 1000 year reign of Christ on Earth - life was amazing. The child could play with the serpent and not be hurt. But that reign also finished almost 1000 years ago……..
We are living in Satan’s season - per scripture. Right before war Gog and Magog and Great White Throne of Judgement. What happens after the Great White Throne of Judgement? New Earth and New Heavens. Eternal life. No more pain. No more crying. Eternal life with our Creator:
A New Heaven and a New Earth
21 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[a] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’[b] or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”
6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”
Then what cataclysm happened to recreate all the mountains around the world again?
If Yeshua left earth and us to the rule of Satan, that was dumb on both their parts...Yeshua for fixing up the house and then turning it over to someone He knew was going to screw it up AGAIN, and Satan for not keeping it in good order and taking credit for all of it these past centuries. If he wants to be worshipped (he does) he sure missed his opportunity.
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just using a little common sense from a child like viewpoint, while you're just making the same claims about this "golden age" without really answering or proving. If all that was hidden by Satan's deception, how do YOU know? I'm not real smart but I do try to be logical. I agree that the new heaven and new earth are still yet to come.
I missed this on the overlap. I will watch it.
Earth was very likely re-created/re-built during the 1000 year reign of Christ. Not everywhere - because throughout the world there is evidence of a major cataclysm.
Why would satan be unleashed again?
Have you’ve read in proverbs about the rich man?
Proverbs 19:4
4 Wealth attracts many friends, but even the closest friend of the poor person deserts them.
It’s easy to be friends with a rich person that gives you free food, gifts, and vacations. But how many of those friends would remain friends with the rich man (God) if he becomes poor? Most would desert him - as stated in proverbs.
Same with God. We have the scriptures. We have evidence of God’s majesty all around us. The sun. The moon. The stars. The seasons. Creation of life. The nature. The animals. Human life. Your sons and daughters. The food that God provides for you. The rain he sends. No one can deny an almighty power.
But how many would remain friends with God when the lusts come in? When the deceptions come in? When the persecution comes in for believing in Jesus? Satan is simply an instrument. To test us who’s truly for Jesus, and who would abandon him when the going gets tough (deceptions, love of money, night clubs, fornication, stealing, lying, idolatry, self worship, self-loving, hatred, etc).
Perhaps we deserve to live in this little season. Perhaps we are descendants of the 2nd resurrection of humans that either denied Christ, or didn’t know about him for whatever reason. I don’t know. I just know per scripture and everything going around us - we are much, much further along the Bible timeline than the pastor in your town/city is preaching. Doesn’t change at all salvation. Because it’s through repentance and faith in Christ alone
Even after that video, and what you've stated above, I'm still not convinced. I agree it doesn't change salvation, so that's good. But from what I can tell, even the Jewish sages agree on the 6000 years of work plus 1000 years of rest with Messiah's coming profile THEN the actual end will come, irregardless of whether they believe it's a first or second coming of Messiah. And the secrets of heaven were entrusted to them. I also agree that we are further along the timeline than many preachers are leading their people to believe, we just see the sequence of events differently.Earth was very likely re-created/re-built during the 1000 year reign of Christ. Not everywhere - because throughout the world there is evidence of a major cataclysm.
Why would satan be unleashed again?
Have you’ve read in proverbs about the rich man?
Proverbs 19:4
4 Wealth attracts many friends, but even the closest friend of the poor person deserts them.
It’s easy to be friends with a rich person that gives you free food, gifts, and vacations. But how many of those friends would remain friends with the rich man (God) if he becomes poor? Most would desert him - as stated in proverbs.
Same with God. We have the scriptures. We have evidence of God’s majesty all around us. The sun. The moon. The stars. The seasons. Creation of life. The nature. The animals. Human life. Your sons and daughters. The food that God provides for you. The rain he sends. No one can deny an almighty power.
But how many would remain friends with God when the lusts come in? When the deceptions come in? When the persecution comes in for believing in Jesus? Satan is simply an instrument. To test us who’s truly for Jesus, and who would abandon him when the going gets tough (deceptions, love of money, night clubs, fornication, stealing, lying, idolatry, self worship, self-loving, hatred, etc).
Perhaps we deserve to live in this little season. Perhaps we are descendants of the 2nd resurrection of humans that either denied Christ, or didn’t know about him for whatever reason. I don’t know. I just know per scripture and everything going around us - we are much, much further along the Bible timeline than the pastor in your town/city is preaching. Doesn’t change at all salvation. Because it’s through repentance and faith in Christ alone
Time is short for all of us no matter how you look at it. The current state of affairs is unsustainable.
What evidence of a major cataclysm are you talking about? Do you mean all the geological evidence of a global flood that most would say was evidence of the flood of Noah?
If earth was recreated during this time, how come it is not mentioned in any historical writings? There are vast numbers of historical writings from the past 2000 years. Has every single historical record been falsified?
Yes, the canopy theory is made up by a group of creationists who misunderstands that the whole of creation is submerged in a firmament, in the midst of water. They have their ideas of space and infinite distance given to them by the world, so instead of saying that we live in a limited space, which is a firmament, they made up canopy theory instead. Canopy theory is the temporary, relatively small body of water that sat over the earth, (not a firmament holding back water in any way) waiting to be released for Noah's flood and then disappear. It is a unbiblical concept altogether, and compromises the reality of creation to make room for their own traditions.
In order to understand what I am saying, you must realize, the scriptures state that there was absolutely nothing in the beginning, but water. It literally is the second verse of the bible. Water is there even before light. We aren't even told how the water appeared, it's just there.
“And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.”
Genesis 1:2
You can't just input endless universe, or galaxies, or stars, quasars and pulsars, black holes, into this part of the creation. There's nothing but water, and God. It would probably be easier if you understood the water to be endless, instead of an outer space being endless, though we aren't told just how vast this body of water is.
From within that water, inside of the firmament, comes our world--including the sun, moon, and the stars. This is key to understanding the firmament. Just water, and then a firmament placed in the water, to divided the water into two to make room for the earth to abide.
“And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.”
Genesis 1:6-7
All of what we know is inside of this firmament, submerged in water. All of the stars, moon, and sun. Canopy theory accounts for none of this.
“And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.”
Genesis 1:14-18
Canopy theory is a way for these creationists to make sense of the world that they are willing to believe and accept. When Christians in the 1800's got a hold of Darwin they started mixing some of his ideas into their belief system. The mark of cain started to mean something else. This is exactly the same with us, with all of our sciences and how smart we feel that we are, in our understanding of the world. All of these same creationists do not believe in a firmament in the midst of water as I plainly read it to you, but have twisted all of the meanings to fit their worldview. Canopy theory is just that.
And I love Ken Ham, but when apologists aren't on the side of truth, they end up making all of these answers up that pushes the truth further and further down, and out of reach for most of us.
Last edited:
Why would you like Ken Ham if he is deceiving people?
Understanding biblical cosmology isn't essential. Ken Ham shares plenty of great things, I just think he's wrong here. To me, he just doesn't know that he doesn't know. I've been there myself on the exact same topic. He isn't apart of some conspiracy or something setting out to deceive people, he is just swept up in cultural thought. For any apologist I'm sure it is hard to come to these conclusions, surrounded by academics. There are actually some apologists that know that the scriptures say this, yet deny the truth.
I love the man wholeheartedly, he is my brother. I would sit and eat and laugh with him any day of the week. The same with you, even if we disagreed about this. Christ is what unites all of us.
Last edited:
- Status