What do you consider modesty on a woman? What makes a woman appear NOT modest?

[Pacman]

Not going anywhere, just musing. The question is not how the author views it, but whether it looks hypocritical from the outside. I'm not really asking you @rockfox, you're just the example I have unfairly picked on just as an illustration, sorry. Trying to tease out @SerenaJoy82's comment, so asking her and anyone else looking from the outside and feeling brave enough to comment one way or the other.

I personally have no problem with the meme. The bathing suites are more revealing than I would allow my wife to wear in public but I take it more as an example of the attitude that my woman or women should have towards me. I view it at those women trying to seduce their husband which is part of their job. The fact that they are on a beach is secondary to me and I will assume that its a private beach owned by the patriarch represented in the meme.

 

[Frank S]

You decide modest or immodest?

Sorry @Cap, there are a number of things that you write which I find are good; however, you may not understand this, but personally I don't find those kind of pictures to be edifying.

 

[Pacman]

Sorry @Cap, there are a number of things that you write which I find are good; however, you may not understand this, but personally I don't find those kind of pictures to be edifying.

Bro @Cap was simply re posting the meme that had already been posted by @rockfox elsewhere on the forum.

 

[Cap]

Sorry @Cap, there are a number of things that you write which I find are good; however, you may not understand this, but personally I don't find those kind of pictures to be edifying.

As @Pacman said. I only posted what had already been posted. And I only posted it to try and determine what was considered modest or immodest in reference to the discussion of this thread. But I do appreciate your comment.

 

[Cap]

I personally have no problem with the meme. The bathing suites are more revealing than I would allow my wife and daughters to wear but I take it more as an example of the attitude that my woman or women should have towards me. I view it at those women trying to seduce their husband which is part of their job. The fact that they are on a beach is secondary to me and I will assume that its a private beach owned by the patriarch represented in the meme.

That's one thing I definitely don't have yet, a beach of my very own. I just put it on my to-do list.

 

[steve]

To me, some of this seems to be overreaction and/or judgmental.




But I wouldn’t want to judge.

 

[Asforme&myhouse]

Modesty is an attitude. As @FollowingHim conveyed, clothing is secondary. If clothing and the amount of skin being covered is the primary issue, then the only intellectually honest conclusion would be that all christian women need to wear a burka.

 

[steve]

Modesty is an attitude. As @FollowingHim conveyed, clothing is secondary. If clothing and the amount of skin being covered is the primary issue, then the only intellectually honest conclusion would be that all christian women need to wear a burka.

Sorry, that just doesn’t make sense to me.
Clothing is secondary, but not by all that much.

 

[rockfox]

No need to apologize Samuel.

I very much doubt a father would welcome a man to court his daughter dressed in that immodest manner.

The point which you seem to have missed was that the command on modesty was given to women. The scriptures do not speak from an equality mindset. Commands to women are different from commands to men. But maybe the principle is articulated elsewhere for men? If so, please do share.

You decide modest or immodest?

@Pacman got it right. The point of the meme was not modesty (if it was, I got the dress exactly backwards). What is being portrayed is the difference in they way wives treat their husband. The nice guys wife yells and belittles her husband. The dominant man's wife kneels before and makes herself sexy for him, looks at him with deep desire. The patriarchal man's wife does the same, and he has two of them. To make the meme I just searched for kneeling sexy women and those are the sorts of images that come up. Sexy wife vs. harpy wife.

There was a time when I had a hard time seeing immodest women. But that was before I understood there was a difference between noticing/appreciating a woman's beauty and coveting her; the difference between an available woman and another man's wife. The choice to translate the word for covet as lust muddies the waters of understanding. Once I figured that out, going to the grocery store in the summer became a lot easier. It's pretty much impossible to go anywhere without seeing immodest women; stores, church, media, anywhere the public gathers.

 

[Joleneakamama]

Sorry, that just doesn’t make sense to me.
Clothing is secondary, but not by all that much.

Allow me to play devil's advocate.

Just for clarity, I don't want to be oogled and even some family members have looked at me wearing shorts and a tee shirt with a level of appreciation I didnt appreciate! I like wearing as modest a bathing suit as I can find, and then if I'm in public I'm likely to wear a shirt and/or shorts over the suit.
At home around family is different. I might wear skin tight stretchy pants to bed, get up and make breakfast in them, then wear them like long John's under my chore clothes to the barn.

But think about the difference between someone wearing a bathing suit, we will say it's a one piece and fairly conservative as swim wear goes who also acts conservative in her manner, speech and eye contact. Vs a woman fully clothed that is forward and "coming on" to a fellow with her body language, looks, and posture.

My sisters competed in gymnastics and I'm pretty sure a gal wearing a leotard for a competition isn't going to push a guy's mental buttons like a woman wearing an attractive dress she put on for a date with him.....who is looking at him with a forward look that asks without words how he likes it!
It's about why she wears it, and how she acts. Some gals seem ignorant (my sisters were oblivious) some know what they're doing.

I think @rockfox has the "active ingredient" isolated. Appreciation vs coveting. We cannot control every woman out there to save our menfolk from seeing.....but we can teach our young men a proper understanding.

 

[Keith Martin]

And as far as the meme is concerned, what Godly patriarchal husband would want wives like that?

Full disclosure: I am not on the fully-buttoned-up side of this modesty discussion, so please keep that in mind when I say, with all seriousness, (a) that I believe it is way overly judgmental to assume anything negative at all about the two women in the Patriarchal Husband frame of @rockfox's meme, and (b) that, while you may disagree, I consider myself to be a Godly man and one who has made great progress on being a patriarchal leading husband in my family -- and I wouldn't at all mind having wives like that. The photos could be pre- or post-marriage as far as I'm concerned.

Female beauty, I firmly believe, is one of the most magnificent examples of the glory of God's Creation, and I don't judge women on their ability to downplay that glory.

 

[Keith Martin]

There was a time when I had a hard time seeing immodest women. But that was before I understood there was a difference between noticing/appreciating a woman's beauty and coveting her; the difference between an available woman and another man's wife. The choice to translate the word for covet as lust muddies the waters of understanding.

Excellent, @rockfox. Ignoring that very distinction leads to all sorts of confusion and misdirection. If one hasn't yet developed the ability to differentiate one's reactions between appreciation and coveting, it's probably time to put some effort into that.

 

[Asforme&myhouse]

Sorry, that just doesn’t make sense to me.
Clothing is secondary, but not by all that much.

The reason generally given for women to dress in clothing that is not revealing is to help prevent men from “lusting”. One group says bikinis are bad but tight fitting jeans are ok. Another group says full length, loose fitting dresses are required to be modest. If the stated goal is to prevent the female form from being ogled, then any amount of female “assets” that are visible (covered or otherwise) are going to illicit a male response. If you take this out to it’s logical conclusion, a burka really is where you end up.

Jesus said that it isn’t what goes into a man that defiles him, but what comes out of him that defiles him. Evil comes from the heart, not from what we see. When it comes to dress code, God has left it undefined. There are no prescriptions in scripture for what exactly needs to be worn. Yes, there are prescriptions for priests preforming their duties in worship, but even those were not applied to everyone or even all the time to those to whom they applied. God hasn’t given us a specific dress code. If we as mere people go around making up specific rules on what specifically needs to be worn and are condemning others based on the rules we’ve made up, then we are no better than the Pharisees. The Pharisees made up all kinds of rules that were meant to keep people from breaking the Law, but Jesus condemned them for it. If you are a Christian and you are convicted by the Holy Spirit for dressing in certain clothing, then don’t dress that way, but don’t make up arbitrary rules for everyone else to be judged by.

 

[rockfox]

If you take this out to it’s logical conclusion, a burka really is where you end up.

This is merely an argumentation tactic to defend against having any standard by proposing that the only logical standard is one that we would all reject.

But hey, given the choice between burka's and going to church to see 6 year olds dressed in clothing that would make a prostitute blush, I'll take the burka.

 

[Asforme&myhouse]

This is merely an argumentation tactic to defend against having any standard by proposing that the only logical standard is one that we would all reject.

No, this is an argumentation tactic to show you that you are missing the point.


Also, your comment here sounds like an argumentation tactic to try and shame people for being honest about the liberty we have in Christ Jesus.

 

[Asforme&myhouse]

Let’s work on conveying the Gospel, and allow the Holy Spirit to work on washing people’s hearts. Simply trying to wash the outside of the cup will get you nowhere.

 

[Pacman]

This is merely an argumentation tactic to defend against having any standard by proposing that the only logical standard is one that we would all reject.

But hey, given the choice between burka's and going to church to see 6 year olds dressed in clothing that would make a prostitute blush, I'll take the burka.

Rock this is completely hogwash. You know he wasn't saying that people shouldn't have standards. He was saying that people shouldn't attempt to force their personal standards on others.

 

[Cap]

Full disclosure: I am not on the fully-buttoned-up side of this modesty discussion, so please keep that in mind when I say, with all seriousness, (a) that I believe it is way overly judgmental to assume anything negative at all about the two women in the Patriarchal Husband frame of @rockfox's meme, and (b) that, while you may disagree, I consider myself to be a Godly man and one who has made great progress on being a patriarchal leading husband in my family -- and I wouldn't at all mind having wives like that. The photos could be pre- or post-marriage as far as I'm concerned.

Female beauty, I firmly believe, is one of the most magnificent examples of the glory of God's Creation, and I don't judge women on their ability to downplay that glory.

I agree with you and would consider myself in the same position relationship wise, however, the position I was trying to convey but probably lost, was the fact that from my experience, women who flaunt themselves, like in the picture, usually have figured out how to get attention. And since humbleness usually goes with modesty, I find women who dress provocatively are not necessarily sisterwife material. Nice to look at, but they usually have a lot of other things go for them than to worry about homey stuff. If @rockfox, and @Pacman s take on the meme was focused on a woman's dress mannerisms and attitude geared towards her husband, AND ONLY HIM, then I get it. But, I first saw the women dressed in bikinis and all meme meanings were lost on me, that's what I commented on.

 

[rockfox]

Let’s work on conveying the Gospel, and allow the Holy Spirit to work on washing people’s hearts. Simply trying to wash the outside of the cup will get you nowhere.

Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

Also, your comment here sounds like an argumentation tactic to try and shame people for being honest about the liberty we have in Christ Jesus.

What rules have I forced on you? I've merely echo'd Pauls command that women not dress immodestly or indiscretely. How is that contrary to the liberty we have in Christ?

Rock this is completely hogwash. You know he wasn't saying that people shouldn't have standards. He was saying that people shouldn't attempt to force their personal standards on others.

I reread what he stated and it sure sounds to me like he's arguing against having rules. And not just against rules, but even talking about it at all.

And besides, who here has stated a particular dress code, much less tried to force it on anyone?

 

[SerenaJoy82]

We cannot control every woman out there to save our menfolk from seeing.....but we can teach our young men a proper understanding.

I have told my son to literally run and flee from women who tempt him with immodest dress or behaviour. Do not let her sin become his and he has followed the godly advice of his mother.