Can someone sum up where we are in this thread. Its long and I hadn't read any comments since the first page.
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Acts 15/Galatians 2 To C or not to C
- Thread starter Verifyveritas76
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One side believes one thing and another side believes another and no one is likely to change.
But hey we all believe that we should have more than one wife, at least that's something.
I’m dealing with a lot of weather with the flooding and storms here and work etc so Ive been in and out. Just wanted to touch on a couple of things.
@Kevin, you mentioned the documents dealing with reconciling the Julian calendar with the Sabbath. I would be interested in those. Especially the era they are talking about.
As far as the eighth day goes in mentions of scripture,
As you pointed out with your lunar calendar explanation, a 7th day Sabbath can only be observed so far before there is a reset required which obviously necessitates a Sabbath observance on a day that is not a Saturday by our reconning. This can be seen in a monthly count as well as a yearly count as far back as you wanna check.
He never said that He couldn’t add to his word. This is an equation that makes the instructed servant the equal of the master. Especially since Torah (every word that proceeds from the mouth of God) continued to be added to for 1500 years pre Christ, by Christ.
Kevin, you said there’s nothing different between what the early church fathers did and what the Pharisee’s did. Granted, they all at some point have some little something that I may not agree with entirely, and at later points in their lives, men like Tatian and Tertullian do go off the deep end. However, on this topic of worshipping Christ in any way similar to Judaism, they are all emphatically united in one voice, quoting from the apostles, that Christianity doesnt worship God as the Jews do. This is from the mid first century through the end of the 2nd century. They are not extrapolating anything from the apostles, but are quoting the same passages we read today in Scripture. Thats a big difference between them and the Pharisees.
I just finished reading Irenaeus’ Book 4 of Against Heresies. He is primarily addressing Marcionist and Valentinians, but does a phenomenal work showing that One God, created Two Covenants.
I did run across a mention by Justin Martyr about believers who followed the Mosaic Law. And another mention of them by Irenaeus who actually names them as Ebionites.
@Kevin, you mentioned the documents dealing with reconciling the Julian calendar with the Sabbath. I would be interested in those. Especially the era they are talking about.
As far as the eighth day goes in mentions of scripture,
- it is first seen as the hidden day of Creation. It literally become the day when the first becomes the last and the last becomes the first.
- Eight is a reset number.
- It is the day when life after Creation begins.
- It is specifically the day presenting and celebrating new birth or new life.
- It is also the number of the Tetragrammaton, YHWH.
- It is also utilized in the Shemitah count as beginning a new season of sowing and reaping.
- It is also utilized in the count to Pentecost by counting Sabbaths. Pentecost is literally the 8th Sabbath from Passover which results in a lot of prophetical types and meanings.
- Jubilees are also an instance of an 8th Sabbath, which is a massive reset. No longer do you count your years of sowing and reaping based upon the previous Jubilee, but as free men with all rights restored, your sabbaths are now counted from the zero year of the Jubilee which is the 50th year and 8th sabbath of the previous Jubilee period instead of the 49th year of the previous Jubilee sabbath count.
- It is also prefigured in the 8 Feast or days of a holy convocation, the eighth of which is to be a sabbath forever regardless of the day it lands on.
- It is also exampled in the wedding feast as the day that the bride is presented to the public.
- It is also presented as the day when time will be no more: 1000 years as a day, the 7th day is the Millenial reign of Christ and the 8th “day” time ceases.
- It is also specifically a special day in the sanctification of a priesthood, and a day that must be observed before a priesthood can begin ministering for others.
As you pointed out with your lunar calendar explanation, a 7th day Sabbath can only be observed so far before there is a reset required which obviously necessitates a Sabbath observance on a day that is not a Saturday by our reconning. This can be seen in a monthly count as well as a yearly count as far back as you wanna check.
He never said that He couldn’t add to his word. This is an equation that makes the instructed servant the equal of the master. Especially since Torah (every word that proceeds from the mouth of God) continued to be added to for 1500 years pre Christ, by Christ.
Kevin, you said there’s nothing different between what the early church fathers did and what the Pharisee’s did. Granted, they all at some point have some little something that I may not agree with entirely, and at later points in their lives, men like Tatian and Tertullian do go off the deep end. However, on this topic of worshipping Christ in any way similar to Judaism, they are all emphatically united in one voice, quoting from the apostles, that Christianity doesnt worship God as the Jews do. This is from the mid first century through the end of the 2nd century. They are not extrapolating anything from the apostles, but are quoting the same passages we read today in Scripture. Thats a big difference between them and the Pharisees.
I just finished reading Irenaeus’ Book 4 of Against Heresies. He is primarily addressing Marcionist and Valentinians, but does a phenomenal work showing that One God, created Two Covenants.
I did run across a mention by Justin Martyr about believers who followed the Mosaic Law. And another mention of them by Irenaeus who actually names them as Ebionites.
Exodus 34:15 Lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they go a whoring after their gods, and do sacrifice unto their gods, and one call thee, and thou eat of his sacrifice;
I’d argue that the Torah instruction is to keep them from partaking of a feast produced from a sacrifice they had no knowledge of. In the Apostolic era especially, the majority of meats eaten in a Gentiles home came from an idolatrous sacrifice. The Jews knew it, the Gentiles knew it and the Apostles knew it. This is why those of the circumcision were able to sway Peter and Barnabas because they knew that they were probably eating meats offered to idols at some point or contaminated by contact with meats offered to idols.
Which gives an interesting comparison to 1 Corinthians 10:25-28 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
For the earth is the Lord’s, and the fulness thereof.
If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.
But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord’s, and the fulness thereof:
This instruction is in direct conflict with the Torah instruction about this passage and other kosher passages. Any meat coming from the shambles was certainly unclean even if it wasn’t offered to idols, as it had come into contact with meat that was.
Leviticus 5;2 Or if a soul touch any unclean thing, whether it be a carcase of an unclean beast, or a carcase of unclean cattle, or the carcase of unclean creeping things, and if it be hidden from him; he also shall be unclean, and guilty.
Leviticus 7:21. Moreover the soul that shall touch any unclean thing, as the uncleanness of man, or any unclean beast, or any abominable unclean thing, and eat of the flesh of the sacrifice of peace offerings, which pertain unto the LORD, even that soul shall be cut off from his people.
Leviticus 11:32-35 even.
And upon whatsoever any of them, when they are dead, doth fall, it shall be unclean; whether it be any vessel of wood, or raiment, or skin, or sack, whatsoever vessel it be, wherein any work is done, it must be put into water, and it shall be unclean until the even; so it shall be cleansed.
And every earthen vessel, whereinto any of them falleth,† whatsoever is in it shall be unclean; and ye shall break it.
Of all meat which may be eaten, that on which such water cometh shall be unclean: and all drink that may be drunk in every such vessel shall be unclean.
And every thing whereupon any part of their carcase falleth shall be unclean; whether it be oven, or ranges for pots, they shall be broken down: for they are unclean, and shall be unclean unto you.
Before I get into what you said, Your looking at Torah with out Yeshua. You've removed Him from it. All things were created for Him and Through Him. Your looking at His instructions with a religious mindset.
Let's first clear up about clean and unclean. God created All things and as a whole said they were good. The uncleanliness doesn't come from the animal but the failure to obey His instructions. Matthew 15:11 "It’s not what goes into the mouth that makes the man unholy; but what comes out of the mouth, this makes the man unholy.”
Let's look at it with a little more context.
Exodus 34:14-16
14 For you are to bow down to no other god, because Adonai is jealous for His Name—He is a jealous God.
15 “See that you do not make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land. Otherwise when they prostitute themselves with their gods and sacrifice to their gods, someone will invite you, and you will eat from their sacrifice. 16 Do not take their daughters for your sons, for their daughters will prostitute themselves with their own gods, and cause your sons to prostitute themselves with their gods.
Like a said a warning to avoid corruption and committing spiritual adultery against God, referencing back to. Not to refuse Gentiles.
1 Corinthians 10:17-30
14 Therefore, my dearly loved ones, flee from idolatry.
15 I speak as to sensible people (also could be translated as people who understand)—judge for yourselves what I say.
16 The cup of blessing that we bless—isn’t it a sharing of Messiah’s blood? The bread which we break—isn’t it a sharing of Messiah’s body?
17 Since there is one bread, we who are many are one body—for we all partake of the one bread.
18 Consider physical Israel. Those who eat the sacrifices—aren’t they partners in the altar? (THE FILTER FOR THE WHOLE TEACHING: Here he is showing that the Physical altar and sacrifices Physical Israel are making aren't warranted and not good)
19 What am I saying then—that an idol sacrifice is anything, or that an idol is anything? (No God is still God and their sacrifices aren't idol sacrifices but....)
20 No, I’m saying that what the pagans sacrifice is to demons and not to God, and I don’t want you to become partners with demons.
21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons. You cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons.
22 Or do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? We are not stronger than He, are we?
23 “All things (that {a definitive article is used but for some reason translators forgot to make the statement definitive} why?) are permitted”—but all things are not helpful. “All things (that) are permitted”—but all things do not builds up. (The Jewish Sacrifices at the Altar, but there's another lesson there for another time)
24 Let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor.
25 Eat whatever is sold in the meat market, without raising questions of conscience. (explained later in post about Leviticus 5:3; 11:24-36)
26 For “the earth is the Lord’s, and its fullness.” (God created All things and as a whole said they were good. The uncleanliness doesn't come from the animal but the failure to obey His instructions.)
27 If an unbeliever invites you over and you want to go, eat whatever is set before you, without raising questions of conscience. (Unbeliever not Pagan as earlier, we are warned against being corrupted by Pagans. Unbeliever who sacrifices on altars Who could that be?)
28 But if anyone says to you, “This is from an idol sacrifice,” do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for the sake of conscience—
29 not your own conscience, I mean, but the other person’s. For why is my freedom judged by another’s conscience?
30 If I participate in thanksgiving (as special Jewish sacrifice), why am I criticized over something for which I myself bless God?”
31 Therefore, whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.
32 Give no offense either to Jewish or Greek people or to God’s community— 33 just as I also try to please everyone in everything, not seeking my own benefit but the benefit of many, so that they may be saved.
Shambles: a place where meat and other articles of food are sold, meat market
Leviticus 5:1-5
1 “If a soul sins—after hearing a charge of an oath, and he is a witness whether he has seen or otherwise known—if he fails to report it, then he will bear his guilt.
2 “Or if a person touches any unclean thing—whether it is the carcass of an unclean animal or the carcass of unclean livestock or the carcass of unclean creeping things, though it is hidden from him, still he is unclean and he will be guilty.
3 “Or if he touches some human uncleanness, whatever his filth is by which he is unclean, though it is hidden from him, when he knows of it, then he will be guilty.
4 “Or if a person swears rashly with his lips to do evil or to do good—about anything that one might utter rashly by an oath, though it is hidden from him, when he realizes it, then he will be guilty of one of these.
5 “So it will be, when one becomes guilty of one of these things, he should confess about what he has sinned. 6 Then he is to bring his trespass offering to Adonai for his sin that he committed: a female from the flock, a lamb or a goat, as a sin offering. So the kohen is to make atonement for him over his sin.
Leviticus 7:18-23
15 The meat of the sacrifice of his fellowship offerings for thanksgiving is to be eaten on the day of his offering. He is not to leave any of it until the morning.
16 “But if the sacrifice of his offering is a vow or a freewill offering, it is to be eaten on the day that he offers his sacrifice. On the next day what remains of it may be eaten. 17 But what remains of the meat of the sacrifice on the third day is to be burned up with fire. 18 If any of the meat of the sacrifice of his fellowship offerings is eaten on the third day, it will not be accepted, nor will it be credited to him who offers it. It will be a foul thing—and the soul who eats any from it will bear his own iniquity.
19 “The meat that touches any unclean thing is not to be eaten. It is to be burned up with fire. As for the meat, everyone who is clean may eat it, 20 but the soul who eats of the meat of the sacrifice of fellowship offerings belonging to Adonai, having his uncleanness on him, that soul is to be cut off from his people. 21 If anyone touches any unclean thing, whether the uncleanness of man, or an unclean animal or any unclean detestable thing, and eats some of the meat of the sacrifice of fellowship offerings belonging to Adonai, that soul is to be cut off from his people.”
If we are disobedient and break fellowship with him by choosing to make ourselves unclean, spiritual adultery/apostasy, were cut off.
Hebrews 6:1-12
6 Therefore leaving the basic teaching of the Messiah, let us move on toward maturity—not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works (Sacrifices) and of trust in God, 2 but of teaching about immersions, laying on of hands, resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3 Now this we will do, if God permits.
4 For it is impossible for those who once were enlightened—having tasted of the heavenly gift and become partakers of the Ruach ha-Kodesh, 5 and having tasted the good word of God and the powers of the olam ha-ba, 6 and then having fallen away—to renew again to repentance, since they are again crucifying Ben-Elohim for themselves and publicly disgracing Him. 7 For the earth—having soaked up the rain frequently falling on it—brings forth vegetation useful to those for whom it is farmed; and it shares in God’s blessing. 8 But if it produces thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed—its end is to be burned over.
9 But even though we speak like this, loved ones, concerning you we are convinced of better things—things coming with salvation. 10 For God is not unjust so as to forget your work and the love that you showed for His name, in having served and continuing to serve the kedoshim (agioj in the Greek). 11 But we long for each of you to show the same eagerness for the certainty of hope to the very end— 12 so you will not be sluggish, but imitators of those inheriting the promises through trust and perseverance.
In the Septuagint agioj is Kedoshim.
Kedoshim, K'doshim, or Qedoshim (קְדֹשִׁים —Is Hebrew for "holy ones," or Saints but is also to Jews, which was who Hebrews was addressing, who knew it as the Torah portion from the Torah Cycle in the Book of Leviticus. It constitutes Leviticus 19:1-20:27 which tells us How to be set apart. The reason why the First Ten instructions are repeated in it and that's why they are taught as the most important, in most cases with in the Christian Church the extent, in it but has much more but ends with "You must observe all My statutes and all My ordinances—do them. I am Yod,Hey,Vey,Hey."
Incase there's a dispute if that was happening in Yeshua's time or if Yeshua did Himself.
The first mention of a scheduled Torah-reading cycle appears in Deuteronomy, where Moses instructs the tribe of Levi and the elders of Israel to gather all the people for a public reading from portions of the Torah once every seven years but had increased after Antiochus IV was over thrown and the haftorah was also read. Nothing like persecution to spark revival. Luke 4:16-21 16 And He came to Natzeret, where He had been raised. As was His custom, He went into the synagogue on Shabbat, and He got up to read. 17 When the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him, He unrolled the scroll and found the place where it was written, 18 “The Ruach Adonai is on me, because He has anointed me to proclaim Good News to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to set free the oppressed, 19 and to proclaim the year of Adonai’s favor.”20 He closed the scroll, gave it back to the attendant, and sat down. All eyes in the synagogue were focused on Him. 21 Then He began to tell them, “Today this Scripture has been fulfilled in your ears.”
Leviticus 11:24-36
24 “‘The following will make you unclean; whoever touches the carcass of them will be unclean until evening, 25 and whoever picks up any part of their carcass is to wash his clothes and be unclean until evening: 26 every animal that has a separate but incompletely divided hoof or that doesn’t chew the cud is unclean for you; anyone who touches them will become unclean. 27 Whatever goes on its paws, among all animals that go on all fours, is unclean for you; whoever touches its carcass will be unclean until evening; 28 and whoever picks up its carcass is to wash his clothes and be unclean until evening — these are unclean for you.
29 “‘The following are unclean for you among the small creatures that swarm on the ground: the weasel, the mouse, the various kinds of lizards, 30 the gecko, the monitor lizard, the skink, the sand-lizard and the chameleon. 31 They are unclean crawling creatures; whoever touches them when they are dead will be unclean until evening.
32 Anything on which one of them falls when dead will become unclean — wooden utensil, article of clothing, leather, sacking — any utensil used for work; it must be put in water, and it will be unclean until evening; then it will be clean.
33 If one of them falls into a clay pot (the small creatures or lizards I doubt He talking about the larger animals because you wouldn't have to worry about breaking the pot), whatever is in it will become unclean, and you are to break the pot.
34 Any food permitted to be eaten that water from such a vessel gets on will become unclean, and any permitted liquid in such a vessel will become unclean. 35 Everything on which any carcass-part of theirs falls will become unclean, whether oven or stove (Were talking about clay or earth mound stoves here but if you have weasels, mice, the various kinds of lizards, geckos, monitor lizards, skinks, sand-lizards, and chameleons in carcasses in your house you got other problems); it is to be broken in pieces — they are unclean and will be unclean for you; 36 although a spring or cistern for collecting water remains clean. But anyone who touches one of their carcasses will become unclean. (Until when, you wash your cloths and it is evening)
Let's first clear up about clean and unclean. God created All things and as a whole said they were good. The uncleanliness doesn't come from the animal but the failure to obey His instructions. Matthew 15:11 "It’s not what goes into the mouth that makes the man unholy; but what comes out of the mouth, this makes the man unholy.”
Peter went to A God fearing Man who wanted to enter covenant with the Lord. Who was eating of the Lord's sacrifice.
Let's look at it with a little more context.
Exodus 34:14-16
14 For you are to bow down to no other god, because Adonai is jealous for His Name—He is a jealous God.
15 “See that you do not make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land. Otherwise when they prostitute themselves with their gods and sacrifice to their gods, someone will invite you, and you will eat from their sacrifice. 16 Do not take their daughters for your sons, for their daughters will prostitute themselves with their own gods, and cause your sons to prostitute themselves with their gods.
Like a said a warning to avoid corruption and committing spiritual adultery against God, referencing back to. Not to refuse Gentiles.
I would say that those who took issue did not know that the Gentiles they were upset about Peter dining with we're seeking God and when he explained that they backed off. The rest is alot of assumption and probalies.
Let's look at it with more context
1 Corinthians 10:17-30
14 Therefore, my dearly loved ones, flee from idolatry.
15 I speak as to sensible people (also could be translated as people who understand)—judge for yourselves what I say.
16 The cup of blessing that we bless—isn’t it a sharing of Messiah’s blood? The bread which we break—isn’t it a sharing of Messiah’s body?
17 Since there is one bread, we who are many are one body—for we all partake of the one bread.
18 Consider physical Israel. Those who eat the sacrifices—aren’t they partners in the altar? (THE FILTER FOR THE WHOLE TEACHING: Here he is showing that the Physical altar and sacrifices Physical Israel are making aren't warranted and not good)
19 What am I saying then—that an idol sacrifice is anything, or that an idol is anything? (No God is still God and their sacrifices aren't idol sacrifices but....)
20 No, I’m saying that what the pagans sacrifice is to demons and not to God, and I don’t want you to become partners with demons.
21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons. You cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons.
22 Or do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? We are not stronger than He, are we?
23 “All things (that {a definitive article is used but for some reason translators forgot to make the statement definitive} why?) are permitted”—but all things are not helpful. “All things (that) are permitted”—but all things do not builds up. (The Jewish Sacrifices at the Altar, but there's another lesson there for another time)
24 Let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor.
25 Eat whatever is sold in the meat market, without raising questions of conscience. (explained later in post about Leviticus 5:3; 11:24-36)
26 For “the earth is the Lord’s, and its fullness.” (God created All things and as a whole said they were good. The uncleanliness doesn't come from the animal but the failure to obey His instructions.)
27 If an unbeliever invites you over and you want to go, eat whatever is set before you, without raising questions of conscience. (Unbeliever not Pagan as earlier, we are warned against being corrupted by Pagans. Unbeliever who sacrifices on altars Who could that be?)
28 But if anyone says to you, “This is from an idol sacrifice,” do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for the sake of conscience—
29 not your own conscience, I mean, but the other person’s. For why is my freedom judged by another’s conscience?
30 If I participate in thanksgiving (as special Jewish sacrifice), why am I criticized over something for which I myself bless God?”
31 Therefore, whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.
32 Give no offense either to Jewish or Greek people or to God’s community— 33 just as I also try to please everyone in everything, not seeking my own benefit but the benefit of many, so that they may be saved.
Shambles: a place where meat and other articles of food are sold, meat market
2 things remember their is no need for a sin sacrifice thanks to Yeshua, and this shows that Jews didn't have to be seperated and avoid completely unclean animals, with a few specifically mentioned times to illustrate being set apart, just their carcasses. It goes the same for unbeliever's as well.
Leviticus 5:1-5
1 “If a soul sins—after hearing a charge of an oath, and he is a witness whether he has seen or otherwise known—if he fails to report it, then he will bear his guilt.
2 “Or if a person touches any unclean thing—whether it is the carcass of an unclean animal or the carcass of unclean livestock or the carcass of unclean creeping things, though it is hidden from him, still he is unclean and he will be guilty.
3 “Or if he touches some human uncleanness, whatever his filth is by which he is unclean, though it is hidden from him, when he knows of it, then he will be guilty.
4 “Or if a person swears rashly with his lips to do evil or to do good—about anything that one might utter rashly by an oath, though it is hidden from him, when he realizes it, then he will be guilty of one of these.
5 “So it will be, when one becomes guilty of one of these things, he should confess about what he has sinned. 6 Then he is to bring his trespass offering to Adonai for his sin that he committed: a female from the flock, a lamb or a goat, as a sin offering. So the kohen is to make atonement for him over his sin.
Context, Please, brother. Your speaking of a something that was a fellowship sacrifice.
Leviticus 7:18-23
15 The meat of the sacrifice of his fellowship offerings for thanksgiving is to be eaten on the day of his offering. He is not to leave any of it until the morning.
16 “But if the sacrifice of his offering is a vow or a freewill offering, it is to be eaten on the day that he offers his sacrifice. On the next day what remains of it may be eaten. 17 But what remains of the meat of the sacrifice on the third day is to be burned up with fire. 18 If any of the meat of the sacrifice of his fellowship offerings is eaten on the third day, it will not be accepted, nor will it be credited to him who offers it. It will be a foul thing—and the soul who eats any from it will bear his own iniquity.
19 “The meat that touches any unclean thing is not to be eaten. It is to be burned up with fire. As for the meat, everyone who is clean may eat it, 20 but the soul who eats of the meat of the sacrifice of fellowship offerings belonging to Adonai, having his uncleanness on him, that soul is to be cut off from his people. 21 If anyone touches any unclean thing, whether the uncleanness of man, or an unclean animal or any unclean detestable thing, and eats some of the meat of the sacrifice of fellowship offerings belonging to Adonai, that soul is to be cut off from his people.”
If we are disobedient and break fellowship with him by choosing to make ourselves unclean, spiritual adultery/apostasy, were cut off.
Hebrews 6:1-12
6 Therefore leaving the basic teaching of the Messiah, let us move on toward maturity—not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works (Sacrifices) and of trust in God, 2 but of teaching about immersions, laying on of hands, resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3 Now this we will do, if God permits.
4 For it is impossible for those who once were enlightened—having tasted of the heavenly gift and become partakers of the Ruach ha-Kodesh, 5 and having tasted the good word of God and the powers of the olam ha-ba, 6 and then having fallen away—to renew again to repentance, since they are again crucifying Ben-Elohim for themselves and publicly disgracing Him. 7 For the earth—having soaked up the rain frequently falling on it—brings forth vegetation useful to those for whom it is farmed; and it shares in God’s blessing. 8 But if it produces thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed—its end is to be burned over.
9 But even though we speak like this, loved ones, concerning you we are convinced of better things—things coming with salvation. 10 For God is not unjust so as to forget your work and the love that you showed for His name, in having served and continuing to serve the kedoshim (agioj in the Greek). 11 But we long for each of you to show the same eagerness for the certainty of hope to the very end— 12 so you will not be sluggish, but imitators of those inheriting the promises through trust and perseverance.
In the Septuagint agioj is Kedoshim.
Kedoshim, K'doshim, or Qedoshim (קְדֹשִׁים —Is Hebrew for "holy ones," or Saints but is also to Jews, which was who Hebrews was addressing, who knew it as the Torah portion from the Torah Cycle in the Book of Leviticus. It constitutes Leviticus 19:1-20:27 which tells us How to be set apart. The reason why the First Ten instructions are repeated in it and that's why they are taught as the most important, in most cases with in the Christian Church the extent, in it but has much more but ends with "You must observe all My statutes and all My ordinances—do them. I am Yod,Hey,Vey,Hey."
Incase there's a dispute if that was happening in Yeshua's time or if Yeshua did Himself.
The first mention of a scheduled Torah-reading cycle appears in Deuteronomy, where Moses instructs the tribe of Levi and the elders of Israel to gather all the people for a public reading from portions of the Torah once every seven years but had increased after Antiochus IV was over thrown and the haftorah was also read. Nothing like persecution to spark revival. Luke 4:16-21 16 And He came to Natzeret, where He had been raised. As was His custom, He went into the synagogue on Shabbat, and He got up to read. 17 When the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him, He unrolled the scroll and found the place where it was written, 18 “The Ruach Adonai is on me, because He has anointed me to proclaim Good News to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to set free the oppressed, 19 and to proclaim the year of Adonai’s favor.”20 He closed the scroll, gave it back to the attendant, and sat down. All eyes in the synagogue were focused on Him. 21 Then He began to tell them, “Today this Scripture has been fulfilled in your ears.”
I sound like a broken record Context, maybe Ill change my signature to just say Context.
Leviticus 11:24-36
24 “‘The following will make you unclean; whoever touches the carcass of them will be unclean until evening, 25 and whoever picks up any part of their carcass is to wash his clothes and be unclean until evening: 26 every animal that has a separate but incompletely divided hoof or that doesn’t chew the cud is unclean for you; anyone who touches them will become unclean. 27 Whatever goes on its paws, among all animals that go on all fours, is unclean for you; whoever touches its carcass will be unclean until evening; 28 and whoever picks up its carcass is to wash his clothes and be unclean until evening — these are unclean for you.
29 “‘The following are unclean for you among the small creatures that swarm on the ground: the weasel, the mouse, the various kinds of lizards, 30 the gecko, the monitor lizard, the skink, the sand-lizard and the chameleon. 31 They are unclean crawling creatures; whoever touches them when they are dead will be unclean until evening.
32 Anything on which one of them falls when dead will become unclean — wooden utensil, article of clothing, leather, sacking — any utensil used for work; it must be put in water, and it will be unclean until evening; then it will be clean.
33 If one of them falls into a clay pot (the small creatures or lizards I doubt He talking about the larger animals because you wouldn't have to worry about breaking the pot), whatever is in it will become unclean, and you are to break the pot.
34 Any food permitted to be eaten that water from such a vessel gets on will become unclean, and any permitted liquid in such a vessel will become unclean. 35 Everything on which any carcass-part of theirs falls will become unclean, whether oven or stove (Were talking about clay or earth mound stoves here but if you have weasels, mice, the various kinds of lizards, geckos, monitor lizards, skinks, sand-lizards, and chameleons in carcasses in your house you got other problems); it is to be broken in pieces — they are unclean and will be unclean for you; 36 although a spring or cistern for collecting water remains clean. But anyone who touches one of their carcasses will become unclean. (Until when, you wash your cloths and it is evening)
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Hey @Patrick Lauser I owe you an apology from another thread I just realized that Yeshua Read from Isaiah 61:1-2 and it says Elohims Name twice in it so it is possible that He said Elohims name or its possible He said Hassem but Im inclined to say He said God's name, based on the reaction it said He got. They were staring at Him before He said that prophecy was fulfilled. The 13 century Aramaic scripture I have is like the English and the Greek it doesn't say His name, but the Torah scroll would have had His name written on. I still don't feel comfortable signing His name to my writings. So I still wont do that. Feel free to move this to the appropriate thread.
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You just Illustrated my point about it being about the year after Tribulations. By they Way, The gematria values of the four letters in the Tetragrammaton (Yod – Hey – Vey – Hey) are 10, 5, 6 and 5. That's 26, It is the number of generation from David to Christ according to Luke and also the number of generations between Moses and Adam. The word "merciful" is used 26 times. You left out That 8 is the number of strings in each corner of the Tzitzit, The sign of His Covenant with Israel. Sometimes God put a pattern in there for us to see sometimes we see a pattern because we need to justify our beliefs.
It is also presented as the day when time will be no more: 1000 years as a day, the 7th day is the Millennial reign of Christ and the 8th “day” time ceases.
As in 900 some odd years to the Millennial reign I hope not I'm ready for it now so we can get tis straighten out. But The important thing there is not time ceasing but the day of His promises being full filled completely after judgement.
It is also prefigured in the 8 Feast or days of a holy convocation, the eighth of which is to be a sabbath forever regardless of the day it lands on.
We've talked about this before I was on the edge and I thought something was there but, There's only 7 biblically commanded feast which all point to Yeshua. He celebrated Chanukah and Purim but they are not Biblically commanded feast they are man made holidays. The second Passover for those who were unclean at the time of Passover fits the requirements because its commanded to keep that one if you miss the first. It would point to Yeshua and to Israel missing The Passover lamb the first time because of uncleanness yet getting a second chance when He returns before getting cut off not a new sabbath.
It is also utilized in the Shemitah count as beginning a new season of sowing and reaping. The seventh year is arrest year there is no eight year to rest the next year is year 1 of a new 7 year cycle.
Special day in the sanctification of a priesthood, and a day that must be observed before a priesthood can begin ministering for others.
Leviticus 8:31-36
31 Moses then said to Aaron and to his sons, “Boil the meat at the entrance of the Tent of Meeting and eat it there, along with the bread that is in the basket of ordination, as I commanded, saying: ‘Aaron and his sons are to eat it.’ 32 What remains of the meat and of the bread you shall burn with fire.
33 You are not to go out from the entrance of the Tent of Meeting for seven days, until the days of your ordination are fulfilled, for he will be filling your hands for seven days. 34 What has been done this day, Adonai has commanded to be done, in order to make atonement for you. 35 You are to stay at the entrance of the Tent of Meeting day and night for seven days, and keep Adonai’s command, so that you do not die, for so I have been commanded.” 36 Thus Aaron and his sons did all the things that Adonai commanded through Moses.
The Hebrew is not making a differentiation between day or night. Sacrifices by priest happened at 9am and 6pm. Since this is the first Sacrifice at The Tabernacle 9am. They were sent into the tent the same day as the sacrifice. Its not 8 days, its only 7.
It is not an equation that makes the instructed servant the equal of the master. But you are forgetting that the Son of man did not come to be served but to serve, He wasn't here as the Master. Its about His nature and the example we were told to follow. He said He does not change we know that to mean His nature. We know The law defined what was sin, that which is sin against Him (His nature) or a sin of Disobedience. Sin is against His nature. We know this because His word tells us this. He said Don't add or subtract from His Word. Yeshua is the example were told to follow. If He set the example that we can change His word that would be a bad example and if we were punished for doing so that would be unjust, therefore changing the nature of God.
God never says anything about a yearly restart for Shabbat.
Miss quoting the Apostles to justify living according to their own understanding and prejudice dosent make them correct. If you don't think there was prejudice reread their writings.
"Epistle of Barnabas" Chapter 4vs 6-7 (between 130A.D. and 138 A.D.)
Take heed to yourselves and be not like some piling up you sins and saying that the covenant is theirs as well as ours. It is ours, but they lost it completely just after Moses received it. (So much for Biblical Prophecy and what God actually Says)
Justin Martyr - Dialogue with Trypho (Between 138A.D. and 161 A.D.)
The first apologist to do this was a newly-converted Christian named Justin Martyr (who was later killed by the Romans). In 145 CE Justin Martyr wrote an apology in which he was having a dialogue with a Jew named Trypho. Using Bible proof texts, Justin Martyr claimed that the Jews were originally selected by God because they were such an unspiritual group; they needed added laws. He blasted the Jews for rejecting Jesus, for killing Jesus, for leading people away from salvation. He gloated over the destruction of the Temple as being just punishment for Jewish perfidy. Justin Martyr's writings became incorporated into early Christian thought. Perfect example of a non sinning righteous believer with no hardness of the heart, Right? He is a Hypocrite.
We too, would observe your circumcision of the flesh, your Sabbath days, and in a word, all you festivals, if we were not aware of the reason why they were imposed upon you, namely, because of your sins and the hardness of heart.
The custom of circumcising the flesh, handed down from Abraham, was given to you as a distinguishing mark, to set you off from other nations and from us Christians. The purpose of this was that you and only you might suffer the afflictions that are now justly yours; that only your land be desolated, and you cities ruined by fire, that the fruits of you land be eaten by strangers before your very eyes; that not one of you be permitted to enter your city of Jerusalem. Your circumcision of the flesh is the only mark by which you can certainly be distinguished from other men…as I stated before it was by reason of your sins and the sins of your fathers that, among other precepts, God imposed upon you the observence of the sabbath as a mark.
Origen of Alexandria (185-254 A.D.) – A ecclesiastical writer and teacher who contributed to the early formation of Christian doctrines.
We may thus assert in utter confidence that the Jews will not return to their earlier situation, for they have committed the most abominable of crimes, in forming this conspiracy against the Savior of the human race…hence the city where Jesus suffered was necessarily destroyed, the Jewish nation was driven from its country, and another people was called by God to the blessed election.
John Chrysostom (344-407 A.D.) – One of the "greatest" of church fathers; known as "The Golden Mouthed." A missionary preacher famous for his sermons and addresses.
The synagogue is worse than a brothel…it is the den of scoundrels and the repair of wild beasts…the temple of demons devoted to idolatrous cults…the refuge of brigands and dabauchees, and the cavern of devils. It is a criminal assembly of Jews…a place of meeting for the assassins of Christ… a house worse than a drinking shop…a den of thieves, a house of ill fame, a dwelling of iniquity, the refuge of devils, a gulf and a abyss of perdition."…"I would say the same things about their souls… As for me, I hate the synagogue…I hate the Jews for the same reason. (He could be describing the church during His Time that gave birth to the Catholic Church a hundred years Later)
St. Augustine (c. 354-430 A.D.), Confessions, 12.14
How hateful to me are the enemies of your Scripture! How I wish that you would slay them (the Jews) with your two-edged sword, so that there should be none to oppose your word! Gladly would I have them die to themselves and live to you!
Peter the Venerable – known as "the meekest of men, a model of Christian charity"
Yes, you Jews. I say, do I address you; you, who till this very day, deny the Son of God. How long, poor wretches, will ye not believe the truth? Truly I doubt whether a Jew can be really human… I lead out from its den a monstrous animal, and show it as a laughing stock in the amphitheater of the world, in the sight of all the people. I bring thee forward, thou Jew, thou brute beast, in the sight of all men.
Moses, The Prophets, and the Apostles all spoke with God/Yeshua. Their writings are scripture and to be trusted. All other writings historical view point at best. Not biblical instruction. Some of the Early church fathers, ones your getting your theology about the Sabbath from also held the belief that if your of Jewish Heritage your cut off, unredeemable. Some like Justin believed that the Sabbath was given as to Jews (all, He said its why Jews were choosen) as the mark of the beast and others that circumcision was the mark of the beast or Cain. Well that would be me. Here and another thread your making a call for a return to the Church of the early Church fathers and going back to their ways, why would I who under their beliefs being unredeemable with the mark of the beast listen to anything the have to say.
Some may say chew the meat and spit the bone. Keep what is truth and discard the false. If the meat is contaminated with poison it doesn’t matter how many bones you spit out. You will still be chewing the poisonous meat! Furthermore, we are not instructed to do that, we are instructed to beware of false teachings, that means if you see them coming you avoid them at all costs and have nothing to do with them.
“by their fruits you will know them”
But they got some things right, yeah, so did HaSatan when He was trying to deceive Yeshua. Sorry, Your Early Church Fathers Ways Has nothing for me, especially since I'm excluded from salvation by them.
Then there's probably going to be someone who comes to the Early church fathers defense and try to make the claim there's no prejudice or say that the word is over played and no longer has meaning, but that's just to veil their own beliefs. That last comment is not directed at you Joe. I'm tired of having to point out how people are trampling the word of God just to make a point, or taking things out of Context to justify why they are doing what they do or not doing whatever. In my case I have felt an overwhelming need to defend the sanctity of His word and His Integrity. I argue with my Messianic Church for being Legalistic, applying tradition as Gods word, and having a religious mindset when interpreting Torah and I argue with my Grace Church over being lawless, applying tradition as Gods word, and having a religious mindset when interpreting His Grace (actually more condemning than the messianic, but free to be as iniquitous as they want), I argue with some home church groups for recreating God in their own image and the chaos and confusion they spread, then I have to be on guard here. I just wanted a place to fellowship with others in peace. I know that's never going to happen here probably no where since I wont stop defending His word and His Integrity. So I have to pick my battles. The battles at here in real space take priority and all roads from the forum seem to lead to the early days of Rome, Technically all Romani are still banned from there, fons et origo the early Church Fathers, so ill be going my own way at least for a while.
There is no scriptural command to “reset” the count for the month or year or anything else. Its just work 6 days and Shabbat on the seventh. Perpetually
Gold...
If you can make that math work you’re doing better than Moses. That’s why they had a beginning of the year. It’s also why they added 7 extra months over the course of 19 years to the calendar.
7 doesn’t go equally into any known solar or lunar cycle or any known observed cycle. Thus a reset principle. Check it out.
Also there was a change in the beginning of the year. From Tishri to Nissan under the Mosaic Covenant
Or, maybe the seven days is independent of lunar and solar....
How do you even know what a day is without the sun or the moon?
I again am missing something, the months reset every year with the wheat harvest, the weeks just run on. Where is the problem? Days move around inside the month but everything is pegged with in a certain range because of the yearly reset.
Basically the guys that are right are winning.
I assure you. I am the last person to be gossamer.
My understanding (from many moons ago when I was researching this) was that the 7 day count restarted each year based on the beginning of the year, the new moon of Nissan, so that the feasts and sabbaths would align each year. There were a couple of different calendars depending on the group. One began the count at/after 4 days, one at the new moon if memory serves me correctly. There was another calendar that the Essenes advocated that divided the year into 4 quarters of 13 weeks and each quarter began or ended with a feast day. Any way you run it, a year ends up with an additional day and sometimes 2. From what I can tell they simply ignored that extra day (or had an extra day of rest) and adjusted based on the new moon of Nissan. The other option may be the first of Tishri when it was skipped/added/adjusted as it was known as the Feast of the Long Day.
The problem with that is that Peter and Cornelius both knew that it was an unlawful act for him to even go to Cornelius’ house.
Acts 10:28. And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
This stance is further proved by the lengths God went to to assure Peter that it was ok to go to this specific Gentile’s house as well as the actions of Barnabas and Peter later in Antioch and the lengths of discussion they went to in both Antioch and Jerusalem.
Shine it off if you like, but Peter said it was unlawful and that he was only there because God told him to go.
And totally in love . . . . Your christianity bias is showing.
