Acts 15/Galatians 2 To C or not to C

[Verifyveritas76]

Context, Please, brother. Your speaking of a something that was a fellowship sacrifice.

Any clean meat that came into contact with anything that had contact with unclean substances was considered non kosher whether it was for sacrifices or personal consumption.

Purchasing meat from the Gentile shambles was tantamount to eating contaminated meat, even if it was lamb, goat or beef.

 

[Verifyveritas76]

Hebrews 6:1-12

6 Therefore leaving the basic teaching of the Messiah, let us move on toward maturity—not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works (Sacrifices) and of trust in God, 2 but of teaching about immersions, laying on of hands, resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3 Now this we will do, if God permits.

Couldnt be just sacrifices as a normal Jew was not allowed to do those. Rather, the writer of Hebrews was kind enough to identify the dead works he’s referring to in Chapter 4. For he that is entered into his (God’s) rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

He is also kind enough to identify these dead works a little clearer later in Hebrews 9 saying that they were a figure or type for the time then present and included gifts and sacrifices, partaking only specific meats and drinks, engaging in divers washings or baptisms (for cleaness) that were imposed on them only till the time of reformation, and the offerings of blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a red heifer. Christ’s blood does away with them all. Verse 14.

And for this cause he is the mediator of a new covenant

In 10:24 he exhorts us to continue in love and good works and to forsake not the assembling of ourselves together. In 13:15-22 he outlines the sacrifices and good works that we are supposed to do instead of the dead works of the old covenant.

 

[Verifyveritas76]

You left out That 8 is the number of strings in each corner of the Tzitzit, The sign of His Covenant with Israel.

Interesting. I did not know this. Thanks

As to the Tetragrammaton, it is also a shape in the form of an 8 pointed star. The Star of David is a two dimensional replica of a three dimensional Tetragrammaton.

It appears that we are both on the same day with the 8th day ultimately being fulfilled after the Millenial reign.

As to the 8th feast day. Leviticus 23:36 lists the eighth day as being a holy convocation, just like the other seven feasts. John 7:37 gives a preview of why it is supposed to be its own feast day.

As to the Shemitah count, the eighth year is the first year of the new cycle. Just as the week count begins with the eighth day. In both instances, eight is the reset number.

As to the special day in the sanctification of the priesthood, I’ll counter your Leviticus 8:31-36 with Leviticus 9
In Leviticus 8 they’re still stuck in the tabernacle unable to do jack squat on the 7th day. In Leviticus 9, on the eighth day, they can actually minister to the people and offer sacrifices for themselves and for the people and the glory of the Lord shall appear to you.

As to God and Jesus being subject to his own laws, I ran across this today. John 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto,† and I work.
From work used in both instances regarding Jesus and his Father on the Sabbath.
2038
2:635,251
ἐργάζομαι ergázomai
Verb er-gad'-zom-ahee
middle voice from (2041)
middle voice from ; to toil (as a task, occupation, etc.), (by implication) effect, be engaged in or with, etc.:--commit, do, labor for, minister about, trade (by), work.

1. to work, labour, do work
2. to trade, to make gains by trading, "do business"
3. to do, work out
   1. exercise, perform, commit
   2. to cause to exist, produce
4. to work for, earn by working, to acquire

Um. . . And this is pre crucifixion.

 

[Verifyveritas76]

Miss quoting the Apostles to justify living according to their own understanding and prejudice dosent make them correct. If you don't think there was prejudice reread their writings.

So from what I have read, I havent found any misquotes of the Apostles re the sabbath or keeping the law as the Jews do or whatever. It would be interesting to know your sources quoted as the summaries they present are obviously biased.

FWIW, I have far more quotes from guys within the Apostolic timeframe against Judaism in Christianity than I have on Sabbaths.

As to the men quoted past 200 AD, youre on your own there. I havent quoted from them or used their quotes in these conversations. The men I used were in response to your earlier source to show that he was not a reliable source at all. I’m still trying to wrap my mind around the first two centuries and don’t trust much beyond that.

As to the Barnabas quote, um . . . Scripture backs him up. Moses wasn’t even back off the mount and they’d cut themselves off from the covenant. The men that actually get to go into the Land are sworn under a similar but new Mosaic covenant in Deut 29. The covenant @ Moab beside the covenant which he made with them (their fathers) at Horeb (Sinai).

As to the Justin Martyr summary, your summarizer has it all wrong, especially the attitude of Justin Martyr. It’s telling that his primary attack is against the man and not the message. And for what its worth, the Jews did reject Jesus, and they killed a righteous man and the Son of God. Daniel says that Jerusalem would be destroyed because of the overflowing of abominations which is what Jerusalem had become under the Jews pre and especially post Christ. So yes, Jerusalem was destroyed (both times) because of the Jews. Josephus stated that the Jews asked Moses for more laws and the Sabbath was given as a sign because of their sin. Since when did telling the truth condemn a man or his perspective? Right, since Abel.

 

[rustywest4]

Dude, @Soldier's Psalm your brain will literally explode if you try to keep up with some of these stud muffin guys like @Verifyveritas76 snd @Kevin ... I find it’s best to just try growing an epic beard like @ZecAustin to attract hella wives!

 

[Soldier's Psalm]

Dude, @Soldier's Psalm your brain will literally explode if you try to keep up with some of these stud muffin guys like @Verifyveritas76 snd @Kevin ... I find it’s best to just try growing an epic beard like @ZecAustin to attract hella wives!

The beard is the key. I hadn't shaved in a month and all I've got is a soul patch. I'm going to have to wait for baby faces to be in again before I can get a second.

 

[rustywest4]

The beard is the key. I hadn't shaved in a month and all I've got is a soul patch. I'm going to have to wait for baby faces to be in again before I can get a second.

Lol You and me both brother! Samziez

 

[steve]

The beard is the key. I hadn't shaved in a month and all I've got is a soul patch. I'm going to have to wait for baby faces to be in again before I can get a second.

“Let it grow
Let it gro-ow
Let it, gro-o-o-ow
Whisper words of wisdom, let it grooww”

(Let it be)

 

[rockfox]

The fact that its not a new commandment means its not a new commandment and the translation is bad because it makes Yeshua a liar. I don't care how many times it was translated that way. But who cares about scriptural integrity if we can use it to justify our belief, or use it to make a point, right? Who cares if what we say impugns the nature of Adonai if we can win an argument, right?

Repeatedly posting the faulty work of others doesn't prove your point. It just shows you rely on others instead of actually looking up the meanings and verses and formulating your own opinion and counter argument on the topic.

Where again did the Old Covenant command us to love one another with the same love that Christ demonstrated?

New command. New Covenant.

 

[Pacman]

And yet "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another."

Where again did the Old Covenant command us to love one another with the same love that Christ demonstrated?

New command. New Covenant.

Bad translation because,
Leviticus 19:18
18 “‘Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself I am the Lord.

Yeshua was constantly connecting different scriptures together to show that His message was there all along.

Not a new, but unused or novel would be a better translation. The "new" translation makes Yeshua a liar because it's not new. Then it makes Him a sinner for adding to the word of God, if your of the beleif that as the son He could change the word so it's not a sin then you've made Him a hypocrite for doing what He called out the Pharisee for doing and showed that even God couldn't keep His own word and had to change it making God unjust for telling Israel to keep it.

Yeshua was (is) our example... that’s the “as I have loved you” part

 

[Nikud]

Where again did the Old Covenant command us to love one another with the same love that Christ demonstrated?

New command. New Covenant.

Learn Greek. The gramtical structure shows that the "as I loved you" is an explainitory statement. Showing He's the example of the command given. This is why not knowing the original languages is detrimental to understanding His word.

And for what its worth, the Jews did reject Jesus

Not all Jews and the meaning behind the message wasn't directed at one person or just the ones who played their role or just the ones who rejected it was all inclusive of the unspirit

Martyr claimed that the Jews were originally selected by God because they were such an unspiritual group; they needed added laws.

End of story for me.

Because this is my last post I want to explain one thing for any who may come across it later.

Its about wholely or fully keeping Torah.

There are instructions that you can only keep if you sin.

To fully Keep Torah means you must sin. We were told to sin no more. To no more fully keep Torah.

 

[The Revolting Man]

My understanding (from many moons ago when I was researching this) was that the 7 day count restarted each year based on the beginning of the year, the new moon of Nissan, so that the feasts and sabbaths would align each year. There were a couple of different calendars depending on the group. One began the count at/after 4 days, one at the new moon if memory serves me correctly. There was another calendar that the Essenes advocated that divided the year into 4 quarters of 13 weeks and each quarter began or ended with a feast day. Any way you run it, a year ends up with an additional day and sometimes 2. From what I can tell they simply ignored that extra day (or had an extra day of rest) and adjusted based on the new moon of Nissan. The other option may be the first of Tishri when it was skipped/added/adjusted as it was known as the Feast of the Long Day.

The seven day week is it's own cycle. It never resets. The monthly calender does but when it rolls back to zero the week just keeps on keeping on. I don't understand how an extra day in the year would affect the sabbath. It would just take it's place in the week and the seventh day would still be the sabbath irregardless of anything else.

 

[Verifyveritas76]

The seven day week is it's own cycle. It never resets. The monthly calender does but when it rolls back to zero the week just keeps on keeping on. I don't understand how an extra day in the year would affect the sabbath. It would just take it's place in the week and the seventh day would still be the sabbath irregardless of anything else.

This is a Roman principle, not a Jewish one from what I’ve seen.

 

[Verifyveritas76]

Its about wholely or fully keeping Torah.

There are instructions that you can only keep if you sin.

To fully Keep Torah means you must sin. We were told to sin no more. To no more fully keep Torah.

I know you said that this was your last post, but I’m not understanding this at all. Consider me befuddled.

 

[Verifyveritas76]

@Verifyveritas76 said
“And for what its worth, the Jews did reject Jesus”
@Kevin said
“Not all Jews and the meaning behind the message wasn't directed at one person or just the ones who played their role or just the ones who rejected it was all inclusive of the unspirit”
@Kevin said
“Martyr claimed that the Jews were originally selected by God because they were such an unspiritual group; they needed added laws.”
End of story for me.

And he has succeeded in keeping you from reading the source yourself. Hmmm.

I just went back thru Justin Martyrs discourse with Tryphos to look for the claims of the still unnamed author you quoted. The perspective that popped out at me was his categorization of contempt by Justin towards the Jews as a whole.
Firstly, I would say that I didnt at all come to that conclusion in rereading it again, or any of the 3 or 4 times I’d read it previously, though I do not deny that he is hard on the Jews, apparently for cause.
Secondly, I seriously doubt that if contempt was recognized by either Tryphos or his companions that their discourse would have lasted multiple days or that it would have compiled 142 chapters, small though they are.
Thirdly, If the conversation was as contemptuous or demeaning as the author depicts, I scarcely could imagine the ending to be as follows

When I had said this, dearest Marcus Pompeius, I came to an end.

CHAPTER CXLII -- THE JEWS RETURN THANKS, AND LEAVE JUSTIN.

Then Trypho, after a little delay, said, "You see that it was not intentionally that we came to discuss these points. And I confess that I have been particularly pleased with the conference; and I think that these are of quite the same opinion as myself. For we have found more than we expected, and more than it was possible to have expected. And if we could do this more frequently, we should be much helped in the searching of the Scriptures themselves. But since," he said, "you are on the eve of departure, and expect daily to set sail, do not hesitate to remember us as friends when you are gone."

"For my part," I replied, "if I had remained, I would have wished to do the same thing daily. But now, since I expect, with God's will and aid, to set sail, I exhort you to give all diligence in this very great struggle for your own salvation, and to be earnest in setting a higher value on the Christ of the Almighty God than on your own teachers."

After this they left me, wishing me safety in my voyage, and from every misfortune. And I, praying for them, said, "I can wish no better thing for you, sirs, than this, that, recognising in this way that intelligence is given to every man, you may be of the same opinion as ourselves, and believe that Jesus is the Christ of God."

For the record, Justin was just the latest in a long line of Christian disciples who reamed the Jews. John is the first, followed closely by Christ, followed by Peter, then Peter again, then Stephen, and Paul . . . . .

 

[Pacman]

 

[The Revolting Man]

This is a Roman principle, not a Jewish one from what I’ve seen.

Based off of what? Is there any reason in scripture you would think the weeks reset? This seems like a big deal that would have been dealt with. It certainly isn't the case now. The modern Jews don't reset the sabbath weeks. This is the first time I've heard this and it seems like a manufactured objection. "If this were so it would mean...." I would like to see where it is so. The Bible makes it pretty clear that the seven day cycle is one of the more sacred institutions in the Old Testament. An exception would have been addressed.

 

[Pacman]

Its about wholely or fully keeping Torah.

There are instructions that you can only keep if you sin.

To fully Keep Torah means you must sin. We were told to sin no more. To no more fully keep Torah

I know you said that this was your last post, but I’m not understanding this at all. Consider me befuddled.

To fully keep Torah it would include doing the specific requirements for restitution after you sin. So if we don’t sin. We cannot and should not do those particular things...

 

[Pacman]

As to God and Jesus being subject to his own laws, I ran across this today. John 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto,† and I work.
From work used in both instances regarding Jesus and his Father on the Sabbath.
2038
2:635,251
ἐργάζομαι ergázomai
Verb er-gad'-zom-ahee
middle voice from (2041)
middle voice from ; to toil (as a task, occupation, etc.), (by implication) effect, be engaged in or with, etc.:--commit, do, labor for, minister about, trade (by), work.

1. to work, labour, do work
2. to trade, to make gains by trading, "do business"
3. to do, work out
   1. exercise, perform, commit
   2. to cause to exist, produce
4. to work for, earn by working, to acquire

Um. . . And this is pre crucifixion.

Weightier matters. Work for the purpose of ministering to (loving) others is a weightier matter.

Matthew 12:12
Matthew 22:36-40
Matthew 23:23

 

[Verifyveritas76]

Weightier matters. Work for the purpose of ministering to (loving) others is a weightier matter.

Matthew 12:12
Matthew 22:36-40
Matthew 23:23

I get that it is actually lawful to heal the sick etc on the Sabbath day, and that the Pharisees etc taught against it.

But . . . Is it lawful for one to carry a burden on the Sabbath? Nehemiah 13:15-19.

Or to instruct someone to do so?

Exodus 31:14, 15 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto,† and I work.
John 7:21 Jesus answered and said unto them, I have done one work, and ye all marvel.